Author Topic: )#(@)! PEOPLE! ( A rant)  (Read 742 times)

Offline DREDIOCK

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)#(@)! PEOPLE! ( A rant)
« on: January 21, 2008, 08:17:37 AM »
Dontcha sometimes just want to reach out and strangle someone who desperately needs it?

Last week I get a call from a customer to do an estimate for some work.
He already has the paint. He just needs someone to do the work

So I give him the estimate which totaled out to $400.
He tells me he needs it done ASAP so he could get his furniture set up.

I  tell him I couldn't promise. But I might be able to fit him in provided my currently scheduled costumer had no objections to having his start date bumped by a day. I'd find out and call him.

So the already scheduled customer has no problem with moving the start date and I call the guy and let him know we are set to go on Monday (today)

Friday he calls me again and tells me this story that his wife hadn't decided what color she wants and he isn't going to do it right now.

Ok I figure he's BSing. I figure either he didn't like the price and found someone cheaper or decided to try to do the work himself.
 Fine. Such is life. watermelon happens.
Now I'll loose a days pay because of it but I have an estimate I can do on Monday and a bunch of paperwork I need to get done. so rather then make myself look like an idiot and reschedule the original customer back to Monday I'll do that instead.

Sunday (yesterday) comes around and the guy calls me back.
"Yanno what. We decided just to go ahead and get the work done. But I'd like you to come over today and also give me an estimate on other things we want done as well.."

Ok cool. Regardless of reason I'm back on for Monday.
So I go over and give him a separate estimate for the other work he wants done. That estimate came out to $600. With the understanding that he would have to wait a couple of weeks to get the additional work done
(BTW Sure enough. he had tried to do the work himself and (a) screwed it up. And (b) Threw his back out in the process)
Now the work description was written clearly on each. EXACTLY what work was being done and for how much.

He is agreeable to this and we're back on for today.
I figure JUSST in case. I'll hold off rescheduling the other estimate.

So Im getting stuff ready this morning to head over there early and I get a phone call.
Yup. Him again.
"That $600 estimate you gave me yesterday. Did that price include the original work I wanted you to do?"

Me- "No. That is in addition to the original work. If you look on the estimate it clearly lists what work is included for that price"

Him - "Oh. Well I cant do it now then. I was hoping the second estimate was an all inclusive price for both jobs."

Me- "Noo. We went over this yesterday. These are two separate jobs being done at two separate times. Thus you have two separate estimates."

Him "Oh well I cant do it then. I don't have the money"

Me- "then why did you bother calling to have work done if money was an issue? Exactly how much did you think you were going to get it done for?
You told me that last guy who did the entire house did it for $2,000
I told yesterday you if he did it for that much then YOU robbed him.
Lemme tell you something. If he did it for 2 grand then you found yourself a complete moron for a contractor and you should just get him to to do it. Oh that's right. he isnt in business anymore. Gee. I wonder why. That is IF you really had him to begin with.
You just cost me a days pay. I moved someone JUST so I could fit you in a hurry. And NOW just as Im getting ready to come over to your house your telling me you dont want the work done?
How would you like it if your boss called you tomorrow and said. "don't bother coming in today. I dont need you. Oh and by the way Your not getting paid for it either."

him- "Im sorry. I don't want to argue with you. I did at least call you to let you know"

Me -"NOW your calling me to tell me you cant afford it?? You should have thought about being able to afford it before you told me you wanted me to do it...TWICE.
The first time you lied to me
You knew how much the price was. and what the colors were You decided to try to do the work yourself and completely screwed it and yourself up in the process. Ok I'm cool with that. You thought it was alot and that you could do the work yourself.
This time there is no excuse. Everything was clearly written and explained to you. And NOW your letting me know?

Him -" I'm sorry. I don't want to argue with you"

Me- "We're not. Don't call me again. Just remember contractors talk to one another too. Good luck finding one that is going to be willing to do the work for you let alone at a price you want"

I get 2 or 3 of these every year
People complain about contractors.
Well this is a classic example of why some of us are as we are.
Some of the people arent any better.
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline DREDIOCK

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)#(@)! PEOPLE! ( A rant)
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2008, 08:49:53 AM »
Note to all you innocent bystanders.
When you complain about contractors prices.
Several times per year I get people who rant.
"HOW DO YOU GUYS COME UP WITH THESE PRICES? I DONT MAKE THAT MUCH A DAY"

To put things into perspective consider this.

If you have a regular job. Barring the unforeseen you pretty much know where your going ot be working a month or 6 months from now.

Contractors particularly in the winter months often dont know not only where they are going to be working a month from now. Or even IF they are going to be working a month from now.
There are times whe I dont know if Im going to be working two weeks from now let alone a month.
Two winters ago I was out of work a total of 7 weeks over the course of the winter.
Now this isnt an unusual situation for alot of contractors. In the winter time it can be hit and miss, luck of the draw and all that.

Can you afford to not get paid for 7 weeks out of 16? Probably not.
So while in the winter months our prices are lower then in the summer when we are often REAL busy When we do work we still have to make sure we get paid enough to get us through the lean times.

Next point.
If you have a regualr job. odds are you get vacation time. Holiday time, and sick time.
We get none of that. Any day off is a day without pay.
And if its a day off thats going ot cost us money. such as going to the doctor or going on vacation. We loose twice.
We loose the days pay PLUS whatever it is we shell out..

Again. so when we do work we have to make sure we make enough to cover this.

Next point. Odds are you have some sort of health benifits in small or large part paid for by your employer. While you may pay for part of it. Your employer also pays for a large chunk of it.

Tell ya what. Price out how much it will cost you to provide your own health insurance and then compare it to how much is taken out of your paycheck.
you will see its quite a bit more to pay for it yourself.
Then there is workmans comp.

Those expences for us is ALL OURs
Next time you get a paycheck look not only how much you made in pay. But figure out how much your employer pays just to have you on the payroll

You might get or use a company car, van or truck.

Betcha you dont hav eto pay for the insurance on it .
And commercial insurance on a vehicle is anywhere from a third more to twice that as it is for your household car.

Then there is liability insurance, And licencing.
Something else you dont have to worry about.

Not to mention tools,pens,paper and other assorted supplies and equipment.
Also not to mention the state usually wants their cut in sales tax.

Next time you get a nosebleed and start screaming to yourself "How do they come up with these prices??"

Consider all these factors.
All you probably have to do is wake up. and go to work every day. All these other factors probably arent your problem. They are for your employer to worry about.

and all of that has to be taken care of before we can even think about other mundane things like paying the household bills like  mortgage/rent. Gas & electric, Food,clothing

All those expences you dont have. Your employer and local contractors have.

Trust me. we WISH all the money we charged went all to us.
And trust me. Just because a business owner has his own business. Unless we have a multimillion dollar corporation It DOESNT mean we are rolling in dough.

Usually after all is said and done. We arent doing any beter then you are.
Hell alot of time we arent even doing as well as alot of you are.
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline culero

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)#(@)! PEOPLE! ( A rant)
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2008, 08:51:26 AM »
Heh, yeah people :)

I had a very similar incident once when I was doing the self-employed fix-other-people's-crap thing. Long story short, it went to absurd lengths and the result was that I repossessed a car from a local bank, and bent the bank VP who tried to screw me over his own barrel.

Another time a local used car dealer whose real business is dope smuggling tried to stiff me for what he owed on an engine repair I did on a Jaguar V12. My wife repossessed the car from his lot, and I had the pleasure of cussing the ******** out when he showed up with cash to pay. Then, six months later, his son's body was found shot dead and stuffed into the trunk of that same car (he apparently tried to stiff his suppliers, big mistake).

Point is, don't let it get to ya. Do what ya gotta do, do it right, the hell with what anybody thinks. Create good karma, you'll come out OK overall. The bad guys will get what they deserve. Sometimes you will have the pleasure of knowing, sometimes even helping dish it out to them ;)
“Before we're done with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in Hell!” - Adm. William F. "Bull" Halsey

Offline john9001

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)#(@)! PEOPLE! ( A rant)
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2008, 08:57:47 AM »
so you have to charge me more because you don't work all year? Who do you think you are, a school teacher? :lol

Offline culero

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)#(@)! PEOPLE! ( A rant)
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2008, 09:00:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
so you have to charge me more because you don't work all year? Who do you think you are, a school teacher? :lol


No, the point is that you don't employ him, you have no clue what his expenses in doing your work are, so you don't get to pay him wages. He will give you an estimate up front, you accept or decline. Either way, you have no grounds to whine about it, so just STFU.

Did I get that about right, Dred? :D
“Before we're done with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in Hell!” - Adm. William F. "Bull" Halsey

Offline LePaul

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)#(@)! PEOPLE! ( A rant)
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2008, 09:10:17 AM »
People, in general, are dumb.

Clearly you were raised, like most, to think most people are genuinely good and until proven otherwise, you give them the benefit of the doubt.

My contractor is a superbly talented guy who gets his fair share of "dreamers" who want quotes yearly, yet never do anything.

I have mine coming over next month to fix one of my bedroom ceilings.  My girlfriend decided to move things around on the attic and felt walking on the unboarded insulation was a good idea.  Now one room has a 1 foot by 2 foot hole in it.  That's her priority with her tax refund

She tried to fault the design of the house, but the contractor gently assured her no one walks on exposed fiberglass insulation  :)  She wouldnt beleive me, but having someone put her in her place (without her knowing it) was pretty priceless to me.

Well, not really.  $500  :)

Offline Sandman

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)#(@)! PEOPLE! ( A rant)
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2008, 09:46:36 AM »
I hate contractors. In my experience, they're generally like a bunch of nine-year olds. You have to keep on 'em, check behind their work because they'll cut corners, they'll do sloppy work, or just leave stuff undone...

The guy that built my swimming pool was a piece of work. He estimated six weeks to do the job. We talked it over and agreed that he would start in January after the holidays. So... on the week of Thanksgiving, he calls me up and wanted to start right then. I said no way. Not going to put a big hole in the back yard over the holiday. That pissed him off, but he did start the pool in late January... and finished it in April... with me correcting his mistakes and oversights every step of the way.

A few years ago, we worked with a painting contractor for the exterior of the house. We got half a dozen estimates. Some really low, some really high. They guy we went with was somewhere near the mid to high range, but we went with him because his estimate was very detailed. It listed every task and the cost. The guy and his crew were great. They worked fast and they did a great job without me having to police them. Hell, they even came under the estimate.

I'm okay with paying more for a good contractor. The peace of mind is worth it.
sand

Offline lazs2

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)#(@)! PEOPLE! ( A rant)
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2008, 10:04:34 AM »
sandie... If you know so much about what is good or bad work and "cutting corners" then why don't you just do the job yourself?

lazs

Offline Thruster

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)#(@)! PEOPLE! ( A rant)
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2008, 10:10:13 AM »
Back when I managed a contractor's front office we had a lot of conversations regarding high/low probability leads and how to best identify and handle them. In my own experience I have found there are a few "tells" customers present that can save a lot of time. I allowed my guys to use their discretion but after we started qualifying our prospects better there was a noticeable decrease in "useless leads" gripes. And eventually we noticed less "problem child" jobs.

Even the best radar can be tricked but these are the ones that I never pursue.

- Customer can't meet at the property, ever. I always try to walk a job with the customer. A motivated homeowner will always have time somewhere in the week to be available.

- The customer confirms the estimate is free within the first minute of the call and then keeps verifying, If I have to promise a fee estimate twice in one call, I'm suddenly too busy to take the work. It never fails that this job is going to a brother in law or whatever and you're there to keep him honest.

- A detailed itemization is required, including brand names. Again no work here, someone's trying to get you to do the takeoff so the B.i.L. doesn't have to think too hard.

- Similar to above, a "report" of some kind is requested stating condition or describing specific defects or other issues. Real customers want to know what's being done and how much. That's it.

- Customer talks about money before the job. Or wants to know if I will "beat his best estimate".

Probably wouldn't have screened the above mentioned homeowner but in his case I would have asked in detail about the status of the first bid before ever making a second appointment, then I would have told him I expected to get some work out of him or I' have to explain to my wife how I let a guy waste my time twice.

I know I'm a bit hard on prospects. Sales managers hated me. But the numbers speak for themselves. Unless you are in dire need of work, it's not wrong to set standards for who you work with. I found that I have a higher closing rate, on more profitable work, with much nicer clients when I'm a little demanding. And I'm hardly ever p.o.'d at myself for chasing a useless lead. Let the goofy contractors have the goofy clients they deserve each other.

Since I started doing my own thing a few years ago I have been burned exactly once. My mistake for taking sub work from an outfit that has a "best price" policy.

Of course if you're into a different thing the rules change but I work on residential repairs and rehabs, usually pretty custom stuff and the people that hire me fall into a fairly narrow definition. But it's never wrong to tell a customer no, or make them earn the privilege of your time.

Offline LePaul

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)#(@)! PEOPLE! ( A rant)
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2008, 10:11:35 AM »
Geez laz, sniping so early in the morning?

Offline lazs2

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)#(@)! PEOPLE! ( A rant)
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2008, 10:14:24 AM »
was a contractor for 15 years.   Got a little tired of some of the guys who knew all about it but couldn't even drive a nail and didn't own a screwdriver.

lazs

Offline LePaul

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)#(@)! PEOPLE! ( A rant)
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2008, 10:23:36 AM »
Ah, so couldnt stand a customer who was making sure he wasnt being gouged by someone.  Gotcha!  :p

Offline Sandman

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)#(@)! PEOPLE! ( A rant)
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2008, 10:24:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
sandie... If you know so much about what is good or bad work and "cutting corners" then why don't you just do the job yourself?

lazs


...because a professional can usually do the job faster than I can.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 10:30:11 AM by Sandman »
sand

Offline lazs2

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)#(@)! PEOPLE! ( A rant)
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2008, 10:36:38 AM »
and better.   And legal and one that won't be a nightmare for the next guy who buys your home.

lazs

Offline Sandman

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)#(@)! PEOPLE! ( A rant)
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2008, 10:38:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
and better.   And legal and one that won't be a nightmare for the next guy who buys your home.

lazs


There, you've answered your own question. :aok
sand