Author Topic: Guess we're gettin' a 39Q!  (Read 12379 times)

Offline Widewing

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Guess we're gettin' a 39Q!
« Reply #150 on: January 26, 2008, 12:15:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by kozhedub
I won't claim to know what the -39Q should or shouldn't do without having technical charts - but I will say that if it has a sustained turn rate/radius comparable to a fully rated Bf 109F-4, then all the current sims with 39 variants have gotten their models horrendously wrong.


Our 109F-4 weighs 6,393 lbs with full fuel and the lesser 20mm ammo load. It has a wing area of 174.38 square feet. This produces a wing loading of 36.66 lb/square foot.

The typical P-39Q weighs 7,570 lb with full fuel and the extra .50 cal gun pods. It has a wing area of 213.22 square feet. This produces a wing loading of 35.50 lb/square foot.

So, it should turn somewhat tighter in clean configuration. What makes the 109F-4 so effective in AH2 is the excellent flaps. We don't know how effective the P-39s flaps will be until we have a chance to test fly the plane.

Even without knowing how the P-39's flaps will be modeled, I can state that the P-39Q should have the advantage between corner speed (approximately 265 mph) down to just below 200 mph where the 109F can start getting flaps out. At speeds below that, we can't do anything but speculate at this point.

Keep in mind that the P-39Q's engine made 1,420 hp, while the 109F-4's DB 601 made 1,375 hp. This produced similar power loadings, meaning that sustained turn rates will be similar as well, with the P-39Q possibly having a very small advantage.

P-39 flaps could be set fully down at 150 mph. Max speed for beginning to lower flaps is at least 200 mph, the same for the landing gear. It may be higher, but I have not seen a reference that was specific enough. Flaps can set at increments between full up and 43 degrees.

Once I can test the P-39Q, I'll be better able to fill in the blanks.

I expect to see a maximum speed of 388 mph for the P-39Q with gun pods, and about 392 mph without. Climb will be somewhere in between the P-38J and P-51D. Rate of roll should be similar to the P-40E. Range will be rather short, about the same as the Yak-9U. Of course, P-39 will have the benefit of a drop tank (probably 75 gallons) that will increase range by about 70%. That's fairly close to that of a clean F4U-1D. Adequate range, but not great.

Overall, I expect the P-39Q to more than hold its own in the late war arenas. It will be very effective in the mid war arena. Likewise, if the P-39D is included, it will be effective in the early war arena, being faster than the majority of the early war plane set.

As others have mentioned, it will not be a good ride for noobs. Those who have excellent plane handing skills will quickly find ways to use the P-39s inherent instability to good measure.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline RAS

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Guess we're gettin' a 39Q!
« Reply #151 on: January 26, 2008, 01:00:49 PM »
Thanks HTC !!!!!

RASCAL

Offline Megalodon

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The Airacobra I in the Soviet VVS
« Reply #152 on: January 26, 2008, 01:08:27 PM »
I found this to be a interesting read, 2 parts

"The Airacobra aircraft is considered by the Germans to be the most dangerous enemy and should be engaged in combat only when they [the Germans] have numerical superiority and the advantage in altitude and surprise."

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39/index.htm

and Borada means Beard? :)
Okay..Add 2 Country's at once, Australia and France next plane update Add ...CAC Boomerang and the Dewoitine D.520

Offline Simaril

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Guess we're gettin' a 39Q!
« Reply #153 on: January 26, 2008, 04:16:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Citabria
wing guns are optional.


Now THAT'S making things really interesting. I expect to be one of those taking a very serious look at this baby.

And yes, I think it's a good looking plane, like a dart with wings.
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Offline llama

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Guess we're gettin' a 39Q!
« Reply #154 on: January 26, 2008, 06:43:24 PM »
Don't forget that there's some precedent for how the P-39 will do: it was in WarBirds for a few years you know. ;-)

The 37MM gun was far from useless for A2A combat, but it was tricky. There, it was a slow bullet but it had pretty good ballistics, with a not-unacceptable rate of fire.

The plane didn't have a lot of power, but it was very VERY well streamlined and held E in the Zoom Climb pretty well, and it dove GREAT. Visibility was pretty good to (especially the rear), and it shrugged off certain damage pretty well. It's small like a Yak (it can spoil aiming). It has neat handling characteristics.

In fact, back then it was my second favorite plane, after the 190-A8.

During the 2000 Warbirds Con in Palm Springs, we had Robert "Mouse" Shaw giving a seminar. Afterwards, he joined us in the main ballroom, where I was flying the Iron Dog with the projector, for all to see. I was lucky enough to have a damn good sortie with Mouse watching the whole time with what appeared to be great interest. I was nailing cross-nose snapshots, clean D400 6 shots after saddling up, and a lot of other "theoretically impossible" shots with the 37mm spud gun. Most were one-hit kills.

Afterwards, I drove Mouse to the airport to get him home, when I admitted to him that I was a nervous wreck flying that plane with him watching. I told him I was a student of his must-read ACM book for a few years at that point, and that I felt like a student showing his teacher what he had learned from the class he taught. He honored me by saying that it looked like I learned pretty good.

Anyway, this little story isn't just to tell everyone how great I am ;-) , but to say that the P-39 has a lot of potential to be a fun little plane.

Don't forget that Chuck Yeager said it was his favorite fighter plane of all time...

-Llama

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Offline balance1

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Guess we're gettin' a 39Q!
« Reply #155 on: January 26, 2008, 07:35:54 PM »
If HT follows the schedule that they did with the B-25 it will be out in the next update, twenty days from when the pics were released!

You know your a dweeb when you love flight sims so much, you believe you can do it better and go start your own flight sim company.

Offline Squire

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Guess we're gettin' a 39Q!
« Reply #156 on: January 26, 2008, 07:48:48 PM »
Without the wing guns, clean, it should be decent at low level. I never minded the Yak-9T its just the secondary armament with just a single 7.7mm MG is a joke. At least the P-39 has a pair of 12.7mm in the nose as well as the 37mm, you can at least still fight after the cannon runs out.

Hey WW, is there any data on TAS at sea level? Curious about its below 5k speeds. Im sure the 385 it gets is achieved at @ 15-20k.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2008, 08:19:24 PM by Squire »
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Offline Widewing

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Guess we're gettin' a 39Q!
« Reply #157 on: January 27, 2008, 12:27:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Squire
Hey WW, is there any data on TAS at sea level? Curious about its below 5k speeds. Im sure the 385 it gets is achieved at @ 15-20k.


Looks like the P-39Q could do about 310 mph @ sea level in MIL power. I imagine around 320 mph in WEP, maybe 325 mph without the gun pods. It's best speed, in WEP is at 9,700 feet (above that is where the max power of 1,420 hp begins to tail off). Best speed in MIL power should be up around 12,000 feet (375-377 mph).

Much depends on what data set HTC uses.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Karnak

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Guess we're gettin' a 39Q!
« Reply #158 on: January 27, 2008, 01:20:13 AM »
Squire,

Just remember, the P-39's M4 37mm cannon is not anywhere near as good as the Yak-9T's NS-37 37mm cannon.

M4:
Muzzle Velocity: 610m/sec
Rate of Fire: 150rpm

NS-37:
Muzzle Velocity: 900m/sec
Rate of Fire: 240rpm
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Offline Mr No Name

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Guess we're gettin' a 39Q!
« Reply #159 on: January 27, 2008, 01:41:32 AM »
It's my pleasure to kill ANYTHING with a red star on it!
Vote R.E. Lee '24

Offline angelsandair

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Guess we're gettin' a 39Q!
« Reply #160 on: January 27, 2008, 01:44:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 5PointOh
So were getting the P-39. Hmmm does that mean this is next?



Yes I'm greedy!



hey, my dad knows the mechanic of that plane in real life
at the georgetown airshow, when i was like 5 we got to go inside of it and my bro got to fly inside, i was too scared, then i saw it again about 2 years ago,
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Goto Google and type in "French military victories", then hit "I'm feeling lucky".
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Offline angelsandair

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Guess we're gettin' a 39Q!
« Reply #161 on: January 27, 2008, 01:57:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
"Worst looking"???

I don't think so....



My regards,

Widewing


man that thing is sleek, its like the cadillac of the planes, not the best, but sure as hell the best looking
Quote
Goto Google and type in "French military victories", then hit "I'm feeling lucky".
Here lie these men on this sun scoured atoll,
The wind for their watcher, the wave for their shroud,
Where palm and pandanus shall whisper forever,
A requiem fitting for heroes

Offline kvuo75

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Guess we're gettin' a 39Q!
« Reply #162 on: January 27, 2008, 02:34:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by angelsandair
man that thing is sleek, its like the cadillac of the planes, not the best, but sure as hell the best looking



you not seen many P51's ??? :D
kvuo75

Kill the manned ack.

Offline Nilsen

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Guess we're gettin' a 39Q!
« Reply #163 on: January 27, 2008, 02:45:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
"Worst looking"???

I don't think so....



My regards,

Widewing


oh but i do.

yuck :lol

Offline kozhedub

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Guess we're gettin' a 39Q!
« Reply #164 on: January 27, 2008, 08:56:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by kvuo75
you not seen many P51's ??? :D


I once heard someone call P 51 a pregnant fish...

Seems right to me.

:cool: