Author Topic: Able Archer 83 (Read 675 times)

Dowding · « **on:** January 25, 2008, 05:58:39 PM »

Watched a documentary about this potential flash point for WWIII the other day. Scary stuff. At least the Cuban missile crisis was out in the open.

I'd never heard of it before, so for those that haven't: Able Archer 83

Amazing to think that the actions of one Russian silo commander probably averted a full scale nuclear conflict. He was even sacked afterwards by the Soviets for disobeying procedures and overiding the launch warning. Incredible, really.

If Macfarlane had not moved to cut out Reagan etc from the exercise, I'm not sure things would have turned out so well.

MORAY37 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 25, 2008, 07:12:44 PM »

I agree.. the whole story is scary.

Simply perplexing, why anyone would think that making the other side think they were about to be mushroomed, just to see how they reacted, is a good idea on any level.

Reagan's surprise that the Russians truly feared the U.S. in a first strike is kind of humorous... and dangerous. He truly treated the world as though he stood on the moral high ground at all times. "What, they think we'd actually hit them first???" When a guy points a loaded gun at you...common sense dictates the bullet might be next. Shows how surprisingly ignorant people can be, at all levels.

Nice post.

Toad · « **Reply #2 on:** January 25, 2008, 08:46:10 PM »

Read closely, one can also take away the idea that the Soviet intelligence services were inept and their leadership was extremely paranoid.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 25, 2008, 09:00:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
Read closely, one can also take away the idea that the Soviet intelligence services were inept and their leadership was extremely paranoid.

The soviet infiltration numbers before, during and after WW2 of the US Government are staggering.

AKIron · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2008, 09:14:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lasersailor184
The soviet infiltration numbers before, during and after WW2 of the US Government are staggering.

My God, we're full of commies.

Who decided life here isn't too bad. Maybe the communist utopia can wait a bit longer. We'll get around to destroying these imperialist yankees pretty soon.

(Hey, who's got the remote? Gimme some of that popcorn.)

Dowding · « **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2008, 11:15:37 PM »

The Soviets were bonkers. They interviewed the Russian pilot who shot down the Korean plane which occurred around the time of Able Archer. He said that he had warned his commander that he could see navigation lights on the aircraft, but was told to shoot anyway. The Russians then told him not to talk about the navigation lights, and had him re-record the inflight transcript.

MAD was all well and good, if both sides are on the same wavelength. Looking back at the Cold War, I don't think they were. The Soviets were incredibly paranoid.

Yeager · « **Reply #6 on:** January 25, 2008, 11:22:55 PM »

He truly treated the world as though he stood on the moral high ground at all times.
====
Indeed he was. Sorry if that offends your sensibilities

Yeager · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2008, 11:26:04 PM »

There did exist a war footing between the USSR and the West. The only thing that prevented the release of nuclear weapons was MAD. Simple as that. Able Archer is the stuff writers use to drum up sales.

Toad · « **Reply #8 on:** January 26, 2008, 07:08:19 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dowding
The Soviets were incredibly paranoid.

Don't forget inept. During AA, the KGB here made incorrect reports on stateside alert status.

Additionally, Andropov had announced to his compatriots that the Reagan administration was preparing for a nuclear attack in May of 1981.

Since the Soviets had war plans that used war games as the cover for a build up to first strike, they projected that tactic on to the US/NATO. Thus, coupled with Andropov's paranoia, they assumed AA was a similar plan on the other side of the fence.

Of course, the US/NATO conducted such exercises annually. AA was just on more in a long line of annual Fall exercises.

I think it pays to remember which side was close to pushing the button when you evaluate the history of this exercise.

It wasn't the US/NATO.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #9 on:** January 26, 2008, 09:02:07 AM »

http://www.doomsdayclock.org/

Ripsnort · « **Reply #10 on:** January 26, 2008, 09:15:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MORAY37
I agree.. the whole story is scary.

Simply perplexing, why anyone would think that making the other side think they were about to be mushroomed, just to see how they reacted, is a good idea on any level.

Reagan's surprise that the Russians truly feared the U.S. in a first strike is kind of humorous... and dangerous. He truly treated the world as though he stood on the moral high ground at all times. "What, they think we'd actually hit them first???" When a guy points a loaded gun at you...common sense dictates the bullet might be next. Shows how surprisingly ignorant people can be, at all levels.

Nice post.

Yes, evil Reagan!

Quote

Able Archer 83 was the last nuclear scare of the Cold War. By 1983 the United States, under the leadership of President Ronald Reagan, was in the middle of a massive arms build up, one which would last throughout the 1980s. United States military policies of the 1980s, such as the 600-ship Navy, showed the US aimed to force the Soviet Union into an unaffordable arms race that would wreck its fragile economy. It was a risky strategy but it had the desired effect. The declining health of then General Secretary Konstantin Chernenko led to the rise of Mikhail Gorbachev in 1985. Gorbachev's policies and programs within the Soviet Union were a final attempt to revive the moribund civilian economy — notably glasnost and perestroika. He also returned to the arms negotiation table, which the Soviets had walked away from in 1981, largely out of a critical need to reduce the colossal level of military spending. His reforms set into motion the economic and political events that ultimately and unintentionally led to the USSR's dissolution in 1991.

MORAY37 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 26, 2008, 11:44:14 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Yes, evil Reagan!

As usual, My post are taken out of context.

AKIron · « **Reply #12 on:** January 26, 2008, 11:48:30 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MORAY37
As usual, My post are taken out of context.

Are you saying that you were not blaming Reagan for pushing the Soviets into almost destroying the world? Sure sounded like it to me.

AKIron · « **Reply #13 on:** January 26, 2008, 11:53:10 AM »

Maybe you had a legitmate question Moray. Let me answer it for you. Reagan did not accept detente because he believed the continuation of the expansion of forced communism would eventually lead to all out war. Was it risky to attempt to defeat the Soviets by massive arms buildups? Yes. Was it risky not to do so? Even more so I believe.

MORAY37 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 26, 2008, 12:00:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron
Maybe you had a legitmate question Moray. Let me answer it for you. Reagan did not accept detente because he believed the continuation of the expansion of forced communism would eventually lead to all out war. Was it risky to attempt to defeat the Soviets by massive arms buildups? Yes. Was it risky not to do so? Even more so I believe.

The what-if's can go on and on. I did not question the outcomes of the cold war. It simply amazed me that Reagan was surprised the other side actually thought we might attack. That's all I said. Not anti Reagan...anti nothing . Simply a general observation. THAT's ALL.

Critical thinking and comprehension are not strong suits on these boards.