Co Alt. Encounters

[LTARstud]

I have a question about Co Altitude encounters.


I have been at 10k in a 190 on my way to a base traveling at full power 320 miles per hour and coming into contact with another 190 at Co Alt going the other way.  I do not make any turns but stay on a level route on autopiolt. This has happened more than once.  He is off my left or right wing and makes a wide turn to come onto my six and catches up with my airplane.  I do not understand how a plane going the other way and making a 90 degree turn does not bleed of airspeed.  Not many airplanes can keep up with a 190 let alone catch them in this way.  Any suggestions ?

[Blooz]

Different 190's?

A 190D9 will catch any of the other 190 models.

[LTARstud]

Sorry I fly the 190-d9 to pork bases. I should of put that in my thread

[colmbo]

Sounds like no more than a well exectuted lead turn.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by LTARstud
I have a question about Co Altitude encounters.


I have been at 10k in a 190 on my way to a base traveling at full power 320 miles per hour  

True or indicated airspeed? I ask that because a 109D can do over 400mph under WEP.
Also keep in mind that small altitude differences are somewhat hard to perceive in AH2. He may just have been 2k above you - but with careful energy management, lead turning and WEP its more than sufficient to catch up. Especially if you got drop tanks or bombs aboard.

[LTARstud]

Indicated speed, no bomb or drop tank and no wep.  I have flow this airplane allot and it is not a good turner as it bleeds off airspeed. Maybe my perception of co alt. is wrong.  But the other aircraft sure seem to be at the same altitude.

[Scca]

Record it, to double check the alt diff...

[BaldEagl]

First of all, if he's going the other way, a 90 degree turn will not put him on your six.  He'd have to turn 180 degrees.

You say you're not using WEP?  Maybe (probably) he is.  Also, maybe he just came out of a dive and has extra speed.

A wide, low-G turn won't bleed much speed, even in a 190, and he almost has to be making it a lead-turn.

[Badboy]

Hi LTARstud

Originally posted by LTARstud
I do not make any turns but stay on a level route on autopiolt. This has happened more than once.  He is off my left or right wing and makes a wide turn to come onto my six and catches up with my airplane.

That's a good description of a Lead Turn and it sounds as though that's what happened.

A lead turn is the most efficient BFM maneuver. A lead turn is nothing more than an attempt to decrease your angle-off prior to passing your opponent's 3/9 line. It can be done in any plane (horizontal, vertical or combination of both). The classic lead turn is accomplished by the pilot off setting his flight path from that of his adversary. He then observes where his opponent is going and predicts where he will be at some point in the future. He then initiates a turn to arrive at a point in space with reduced aspect and angle-off. See the diagram below.

I do not understand how a plane going the other way and making a 90 degree turn does not bleed of airspeed.  Not many airplanes can keep up with a 190 let alone catch them in this way.  Any suggestions ?

If he executed the lead turn correctly he may have come out of the turn on your six and at close range. He may have been going slower due to lost speed in the turn, but he would still have been able to remain within guns range long enough to make the kill.

Hope that helps

Badboy

[dkff49]

I actually caught a P38 while I was in a Zero doing this after extended away from me several times I managed to get the timing right to be able to lead turn into him to meet him at a point in turn to get a few bursts off before he got out of range. Just takes some planning and good timing. I am not even a very accomplished pilot and was even less of one then since this was several months ago.I just a couple of times to get it right since he would leave icon range before returning. I guess he was trying to sneak in on me.

Back to your story though, for an experienced sim pilot this would probably not be very difficult to judge the right distance and speed to be close in on your six for at least a few seconds and be able to squeeze off a few bursts.

[Bruv119]

you also say that you left it on level autopilot.

He can dive towards you / go faster then pull up again to take a shot.

Some rational explanations but I guess if all else fails he must have been hacking!  

[Anaxogoras]

We should also clarify that even if you have no drop tank now, but had one earlier in your flight, the rack slows you down by up to 5mph.

[Yeager]

two plane types, same load out, same alt.....both going 390 TAS, 20,000 alt at perfect merge....one continues on without manking any energy bleeding turn while the other does a 180 degree reversal and catches up and shoots down the other.   Things that make you go WTF!

[Yeager]

two plane types, same load out both going 390 TAS, 20,000 alt at perfect merge....one continues on without manking any energy bleeding turn while the other does a 180 degree hard breaking reversal and catches up and shoots down the other.   Things that make you go WTF!

[dkff49]

Originally posted by Yeager
two plane types, same load out both going 390 TAS, 20,000 alt at perfect merge....one continues on without manking any energy bleeding turn while the other does a 180 degree hard breaking reversal and catches up and shoots down the other.   Things that make you go WTF!

This is assuming that the turning plane waited until passing to start turn. What these other posters stated was that if you initiated your turn prior to passing each other then you could lead turn and meet them at a point in your turn. That is how I caught a P38 with a Zero.

respectfully submitted