Author Topic: Me 262 (Read 1663 times)

Blooz · « **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2008, 07:08:23 PM »

Ludendorff railway bridge at Remagen.

Rich46yo · « **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2008, 05:40:55 AM »

Its impossible to guess what impact a streamlined 262 production would have had on the war. My best guess is it wouldnt have changed anything, other then prolonging the inevitable. Without question it would have had some impact on the air war.

When the Allies landed in Normandy, and held on, the fate of Germany was sealed. With or without numbers of ME-262s. Dont forget 262 production had another weak link in the chain. That of fuel. Fuel to make them, fuel to fly them.

MiloMorai · « **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2008, 05:56:33 AM »

Germany was short of diesel fuel?

Lusche · « **Reply #18 on:** February 01, 2008, 06:12:27 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MiloMorai
Germany was short of diesel fuel?

Actually yes. Germany was short off all types of fuel, though you have a valid point: Me 262 fuel was still easier/cheaper to produce than the fuel for prop fighters. (On the other hand, a 262 consumed an awful lot of it...)

MiloMorai · « **Reply #19 on:** February 01, 2008, 06:55:51 AM »

April 22 1945
Luftwaffenkommando West reported the following fuel stocks on airfields in Bavaria:

B-4 = 350,000 liters
C-3 = 284,000 liters

J-2 = 1,897,000 liters

That is enough J-2 to fill 903 Me262s.

Noir · « **Reply #20 on:** February 01, 2008, 08:02:37 AM »

interresting quote :

Faced with overwhelming Allied strength and extreme logistical problems, particularly fuel shortages, Me-262 operations during those months were intermittent. An elite unit, "JV-44", was formed up under Adolf Galland, and racked up a number of kills before hostilities ended. Many of these kills were achieved with the new "R4M" 55 millimeter (2.2 inch) folding fin rockets. An Me-262 could carry a total of 24 such weapons on wooden racks, one under each wing, and if fired into a bomber formation the rockets could have a devastating effect on anything they hit. Schwalbes configured to carry the R4M were given the designation "Me-262A-1b".

http://www.vectorsite.net/avme262.html

When do we get those rockets ?

Lusche · « **Reply #21 on:** February 01, 2008, 08:08:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MiloMorai
April 22 1945
Luftwaffenkommando West reported the following fuel stocks on airfields in Bavaria:

B-4 = 350,000 liters
C-3 = 284,000 liters

J-2 = 1,897,000 liters

That is enough J-2 to fill 903 Me262s.

That's because of herding of reserves, and doesn't reflect the actual fuel situation which is characterized by demand, supply and reserves.

(Also while 900 Me 262 sounds pretty much, consider that fuel is not only required for combat sorties but also for training/instruction, redeployment, test flights).

While high grade aviation fuel production suffered most, the whole fuel production was basically smashed to pieces during 1944.

MiloMorai · « **Reply #22 on:** February 01, 2008, 10:20:15 AM »

Lusche · « **Reply #23 on:** February 01, 2008, 10:23:31 AM »

And your point is?

MajIssue · « **Reply #24 on:** February 01, 2008, 02:17:40 PM »

Good posts...

There is no doubt that Germay's fate was sealed, and nothing could have prevented "The Fatherlands" eventual defeat, the Question is at what point was defeat inevitable?

To paraphrase from Kennerly's "The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers", The greater combanation of economic power will (and has) always defeat(ed) the lesser.

Based on that premise, Germany might have been able to defeat the Soviet Union, and/or Great Britian. When Hitler declared war on the US (to honor the terms of thr tripartie pact) after Pearl Harbor, The fate of Germany was cast in stone. With the Combined resourses available from all of occupied Europe, Germany's production of armaments (and availability of Troops as well) was dwarfed by the US/UK/USSRs capability.

The ME-262 was the most advanced aircraft of the war indisputably, but would not have effected the final outcome. The Red Army would have still been raising the Soviet flag over the Reichstag in May 1945. There was no way the Whermact could have stopped the Red Army after the German 5th Army was encircled and destroyed at Stalingrad.

indy007 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 01, 2008, 02:20:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MajIssue
Good posts...

There is no doubt that Germay's fate was sealed, and nothing could have prevented "The Fatherlands" eventual defeat, the Question is at what point was defeat inevitable?

According to Hart, it was Dunkirk. The inability to finish off the Brit expeditionary forces sealed their fate.

Lusche · « **Reply #26 on:** February 01, 2008, 02:29:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MajIssue
Good posts...

There is no doubt that Germay's fate was sealed, and nothing could have prevented "The Fatherlands" eventual defeat, the Question is at what point was defeat inevitable?

When Hitler & the NSDAP took power.

AquaShrimp · « **Reply #27 on:** February 01, 2008, 03:01:48 PM »

To have ground superiority, you need air superiority. The Me-262 would have been helpful in that aspect. All it would need to have done is inflict 10% losses on each bomber raid. Something that was accomplished in 1943 by the Luftwaffe. The 8th airforce was not only going through bombers at an incredible rate, but also aircrews.

The Germans had some amazing weapons, but just not nearly enough of them. The Panther tank, the Me262, and Stg44, and the Ar-234 are among the top of the list.

Overlag · « **Reply #28 on:** February 05, 2008, 08:52:45 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lusche
When Hitler & the NSDAP took power.

When Hitler invaded Russia. Up to then, everything else was "working".

Quote

Originally posted by indy007
According to Hart, it was Dunkirk. The inability to finish off the Brit expeditionary forces sealed their fate.

maybe... they should have been able to crush the beaches and cut off the retreating forces in a pocket... but they never... problem is, the brits had nothing left by then to come back with... as it was all left in europe.

Lusche · « **Reply #29 on:** February 05, 2008, 11:58:32 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Overlag
When Hitler invaded Russia. Up to then, everything else was "working".

But such a thing was inevitable.
A irratinale ideology, based on hatred and perceived national/racial superiority, a ruthless megalomaniac at the top leading a largely obident nation with inferiority complex and a high regard of it's own military traditions.
Was only a matter of time 'till things went out of control.

But that's another discussion not belonging to "Aircraft and Vehicles" I guess