Fix the twin engine pilot wound thing

[Karnak]

Also, my issue is not with heavy macineguns or cannons causing pilot wounds, it is how often I get them from rifle caliber machineguns on things like Bf110s, Ju88s and tanks.

[SD67]

It's always possible for someone to get a lucky shot through the non armoured part of the canopy with a rifle calibre MG. In fact when I'm flying the HurriI it's the shot I try for most as it's usually the only way I'll get a quick kill.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by SD67
It's always possible for someone to get a lucky shot through the non armoured part of the canopy with a rifle calibre MG. In fact when I'm flying the HurriI it's the shot I try for most as it's usually the only way I'll get a quick kill.

Possible, yes, but that is no different than shooting a Spitfire pilot.  But that is not what happens in AH.  The P-38 and Mossie (and, I'd guess the Bf110) all get wounds from the rifle caliber guns just as easily as from .50s or 20mm rounds.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Oleg
Most planes have it.

 
Protects you from very limited angles.

 
Most planes have it as well.


Nothing in comparision with front engine.

So you are suggesting the 38s should have a higher incident of pilot wounds?

Flying Spit VIIIs or 51Bs I've never had the same percentage of pilot wounds as I do in the 38.    Since the cockpit isn't any larger then the other two, how do you account for that?

More then just those guns and ammo in front of the pilot too.

Seems like the armor set up in the 38 wasn't too bad.

[Treize69]

Dan, you should no by now that noone wants to see your "evidence", jeez. Just start making stuff up like everyone else does.

[humble]

I cant recall the last time I got a pilot wound without a corresponding hole in the glass (I'm sure it happens). All in all I'd say the mossie gets fewer pilot wounds then the A-20 does (dont fly the 38 enough to comment). From my perspective most pilot wounds dont come from true HO's but come from some type of a front quarter shot you cant avoid or a "golden BB" type snapshot.

[Karnak]

Mine seem to come from defensive guns on aircraft or vehicles I attack.

[DoNKeY]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Basically, he's saying he HO's.


ack-ack

Ahhhhhh.

donkey

[Kweassa]

Seems like the armor set up in the 38 wasn't too bad.

 Definately worse than a plane with a few thousand pounds of engine block in front, and a whole length of fuselage behind it, wouldn't you say?

[Kweassa]

Yeah, aiming for the cockpit..good idea Have you taken a
good look at ANY of the single engine type's windscreen? There isn't anything in front of them either...why do they not suffer the same
percentage of pilot wounds?

 So, what's the percentage of pilot wounds in twin engined planes?

 Have you tested?

 
 Empirically, I "feel" as if the Ki-84 has a lot of pilot wounds. But then again, some days, I don't have any. Since I don't have anything solid to go on to argue that there's something wrong with pilot wounds on the Ki-84, I tend to keep my mouth shut.

 You know, perhaps you noticing more pilot wounds in those planes, is actually a testament to your flying skills. Maybe you survived a lot longer than other pilots would have, and since that'd mean you've been hit with a lot of bullets that would have blown other planes up, the chances of being hurt go up a lot higher than those who just plain ol' die in the air.

 Or, maybe you squirm around a lot more than other people in those planes, and you expose a substantial part of the upper canopy as the enemy behind you shoots at you, thus, noticing more pilot wounds than others. I know I certainly do get a lot of pilot wounds when I twisty-turny my Ki-84.

 ...

 So in the end game, how would you know how much of your percentage of pilot wounds are due to a faulty game, rather than from your own actions?

 Any proof?
 Testings?
 Solid evidence?


 You know what.. everytime I up some of my favorite planes, like the Ki-84 or the 109, I always get my oil can blown out, engine busted, radiator punctured, vstabs shot off on a regular basis. I could argue that there's something wrong with these planes in that every hit from the enemy causes these failures to happen - like, 90% of the time.

 But then again, I am reminded the fact that I am a mediocre, sucky, average pilot who gets owned in all sorts of circumstances. Maybe the reason those things are constantly being damaged, is because I'm consistently being shot at.

 I'd suspect a larger human factor is involved in all this, then you'd like to think so.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Definately worse than a plane with a few thousand pounds of engine block in front, and a whole length of fuselage behind it, wouldn't you say?

Actually no I wouldn't

I'd say that the cannons and 50s plus the armor plate in front would certainly be some protection.

Based on the logic of the engine being protection then I'd say that the 38 would get less pilot wounds as there are one on each side of the pilot, plus the thickest part of the wing is there that he is sitting between.

Think of a 51 for example.  The pilot is sitting on the wing not between it.  The fuselage is hollow outside of a fuel tank behind him.  Kinda doubt that's going to stop a shot.  His armor plate behind is similar to the 38, and he's got nothing on either side.

A deflection shot or front quarter shot should wound a single engine fighter pilot just as often and a passing shot along the fuselage should wound them more as there would be nothing in the way except thin fuselage wall.  A passing shot on a 38 would have to go through the engine booms and potentially the engines, down the length of the wing and fuel tanks and through the cockpit pod wall.  Just a bit more don't ya think?

[Kweassa]

Actually no I wouldn't

I'd say that the cannons and 50s plus the armor plate in front would certainly be some protection.

Based on the logic of the engine being protection then I'd say that the 38 would get less pilot wounds as there are one on each side of the pilot, plus the thickest part of the wing is there that he is sitting between.

Think of a 51 for example. The pilot is sitting on the wing not between it. The fuselage is hollow outside of a fuel tank behind him. Kinda doubt that's going to stop a shot. His armor plate behind is similar to the 38, and he's got nothing on either side.

A deflection shot or front quarter shot should wound a single engine fighter pilot just as often and a passing shot along the fuselage should wound them more as there would be nothing in the way except thin fuselage wall. A passing shot on a 38 would have to go through the engine booms and potentially the engines, down the length of the wing and fuel tanks and through the cockpit pod wall. Just a bit more don't ya think?

 I'd say the above borders on "wishful thinking", Gupps.

 Five barrels of guns ain't exactly a P&W radial, or comparable to any chunk of metal engine block for that matter.. and if I linger on the same logic, a vstab/hstab and rudder/elevator, would by itself provide something akin of a double stoppage... and every additional nooks and crannys that comes in between from that point to the rear plate armour of a single engined fighter.

[Hack9]

Why would you be ashamed to shoot at the cockpit?

Only slightly ashamed.  I was being facetious.

That wood had more stopping power than the thin aluminium skin on other aircraft. Still, it has essentially no stopping power.

Thank you for the correction, though I used the wrong words when I wrote   'stopping power'.  I was trying to speak to the ability (or lack of ability) of the fuselage structure (and its contents) to slow down and/or redirect bullets rather than actually stop them.  Apparently, I'm mistaken to believe there is any such ability regardless of skin material used.

Basically, he's saying he HO's.

Not sure why the "H" word had to come up.  Lots of better ways to get a cockpit shot that don't bite back.

If there's a flaw in the game that puts these aircraft at a non-historical disadvantage in regard to receiving pilot wounds vs real life counterparts then document it.

"In God we trust. All others, bring data."

Hack9

[Murdr]

Originally posted by Murdr

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Kweassa
I'd say the above borders on "wishful thinking", Gupps.

 Five barrels of guns ain't exactly a P&W radial, or comparable to any chunk of metal engine block for that matter.. and if I linger on the same logic, a vstab/hstab and rudder/elevator, would by itself provide something akin of a double stoppage... and every additional nooks and crannys that comes in between from that point to the rear plate armour of a single engined fighter.

Could be wishful thinking, but do you believe a 38 in AH should be more likely to get a pilot wound then a 51?  I realize I do goofy things with my 38G but my experience with the Spit is nowhere near the number of pilot wounds or in the 51B.

Last night I had em on 3 of my first 4 flights.  Even for me that's a lot