Author Topic: Redouts  (Read 930 times)

Offline Anaxogoras

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Redouts
« on: February 06, 2008, 09:46:25 AM »


In Aces High you can push your stick all the way forward, redout, and then recover within a second or two.  Some of the maneuvers we do might permanently damage the eyesight of a real pilot, if not cause temporary blindness.  I've done loops, spins and barrel rolls (among other maneuvers) in a Grob with a friend who's in the airforce, and it was very uncomfortable.  This flight simulation is to G-forces what a Churchill martini is to vermouth.:rofl

gavagai
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Offline hubsonfire

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Redouts
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2008, 10:10:46 AM »
It's because it is assumed that our blood will be seriously thinned with alcohol, so that the blood drains and returns much more quickly than your average mortal's.

Quite a few aircraft models initially had bottles of booze in them, and that's not coffee in the mug in the tower.
mook
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Offline chase4

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Redouts
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2008, 11:04:48 AM »
I've done airshows now for 3 years with my uncles display team (caledonian chipmunks found here if you wan't the details ;) ) and I can tell you that I'm still getting used to the positive g's and negative g's that happen on even the most basic of maneuvers that I can pull off in Aces High without even a shake of the head.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2008, 11:15:11 AM by chase4 »

Offline xbrit

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Redouts
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2008, 11:10:57 AM »
hello
it's a game

Offline Ghastly

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Redouts
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2008, 11:13:41 AM »
Given the lack of any sort of device to control gravitational fields, how do you guys suggest that such effects be modeled?

"Curse your sudden (but inevitable!) betrayal!"
Grue

Offline JB73

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Redouts
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2008, 11:42:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ghastly
Given the lack of any sort of device to control gravitational fields, how do you guys suggest that such effects be modeled?

nopoop had the answer a while back

http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79301&highlight=baseball

there was more too it to, I think pouring gasoline on him when the plane is on fire was involved.

:aok
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline hubsonfire

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Redouts
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2008, 11:49:32 AM »
'Poop was awesome. I miss that guy.
mook
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Offline Ghastly

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Redouts
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2008, 12:00:35 PM »
Me too.

I tried to talk him into flying again when I started flying AH so we could wing up again, but he'd kind of had a lot of things flow under the bridge so to speak in between then and when we'd last flown together in WarBirds, and I couldn't talk him into it.

He's a character - but then again, there wasn't an EZTarget who wasn't!

"Curse your sudden (but inevitable!) betrayal!"
Grue

Offline Blammo

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Re: Redouts
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2008, 12:51:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Anaxogoras


In Aces High you can push your stick all the way forward, redout, and then recover within a second or two.  Some of the maneuvers we do might permanently damage the eyesight of a real pilot, if not cause temporary blindness.  I've done loops, spins and barrel rolls (among other maneuvers) in a Grob with a friend who's in the airforce, and it was very uncomfortable.  This flight simulation is to G-forces what a Churchill martini is to vermouth.:rofl



So, do you want your "virutal" eyesight permanently damaged?  Or, do you want to have to create a new "virtual" instance of yourself everytime you die in game?  Or how about being prevented from flying until your virtual self heals from that pilot wound they got?

Seriously, certain allowances have to be made for the fact that this is a game.  I think there would be a much smaller community here if you raised the level of realism on things like this to the level people keep suggesting.

I don't know.  Maybe people want a smaller AH2 community?
BLAMM0 - FACTA, NON VERBA!

Offline Kweassa

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Redouts
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2008, 01:38:52 PM »
Quote
So, do you want your "virutal" eyesight permanently damaged? Or, do you want to have to create a new "virtual" instance of yourself everytime you die in game? Or how about being prevented from flying until your virtual self heals from that pilot wound they got?


 How about just rethinking how the blackouts or redouts are done, instead of being plain rude?

 The guy has a point - AH G effects are a minor nuisance in the game as opposed to a major factor in determining pilot behavior. We can go up down up down up down... alternating between sudden 4Gs and -4Gs and the screen just flickers black/red in an on/off mode. But is visibility issues related G effects so simple?

 Remember: we didn't used to have pilots passing out due to constant blackout exposures. At some point in the game, it made its way into the game. Despite the hordes of "its only a game" crowd, AH2 has been steadily making its way into more realism, be it visually or systematically.

 

Quote
Seriously, certain allowances have to be made for the fact that this is a game. I think there would be a much smaller community here if you raised the level of realism on things like this to the level people keep suggesting.


 After many years, I've realized the "allowances for realism" most people talk about in your context, are actually nothing but selfish arbitrary opinions based on nothing.  From the beginning of AH2 in its beta phases upto now, it has been a slow but constant journey towards more "realism", and AH2 community has all but shrunk.


 When AH2 first came, people noticed the planes felt less "fly-by-wire" or "fly-on-rails" feeling, and some people didn't like it. Nobody complains about it now.

 When HTC changed its own policy to maintain the fantasy cockpits for "better accessibility", and moved into a serious compromise for a "historic cockpit" feel, some people didn't like it. Some people still don't like it, but I don't see the AH2 community shrinking. Do you?

 When HTC changed the loadout systems, changed the terrains, changed minor FMs, changed how the blackouts effected the pilot, changed so the auto-pilot couldn't pull you out of a highspeed dive, changed when you couldn't use auto-pilot at all while blacked out.. and on and on and on and on...


 ...people complained. But they all got used to it now.


 It's HT and Pyro's call, and amusingly, over the years they've adapted and accepted many of the opinions and suggestions concerning "more realism",  despite the initial negative responses. Most of the above changes I've listed, have been long suggested, but now realized.

 So why don't we just debate what kind of changes can be viable, or how they may be adapted into the game, without too much seriously effecting gameplay towards cumbersome realities - ie. stuff like 14-step checklist for take-offs and such.... instead of stepping on other people's suggestions because you simply don't like the sound of it?
 
 After all, you never know when HT or Pyro might change their opinions.



Quote
I don't know. Maybe people want a smaller AH2 community?


 Would you rather let the game go the way of the dinosaur?

Offline JB73

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Redouts
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2008, 01:39:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
'Poop was awesome. I miss that guy.
what ever happened to him, and the stories on the BK site?

"wittle guys" was one of my favorites :lol
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline hubsonfire

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Redouts
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2008, 01:44:16 PM »
You already get a new virtual instance of yourself every sortie, and each is susceptible to pilot wounds, extended blackouts, and death. Why would redouts be any different?
mook
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Offline hubsonfire

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Redouts
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2008, 01:52:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB73
what ever happened to him, and the stories on the BK site?

"wittle guys" was one of my favorites :lol


He still maintains his account, and pops in on the boards periodically, but I think he's focusing more on the real world and some of his other hobbies these days. I think he was the one maintaining the website, which is now defunct, AFAIK.
mook
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Offline Kweassa

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Redouts
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2008, 05:56:21 PM »
Quote
You already get a new virtual instance of yourself every sortie, and each is susceptible to pilot wounds, extended blackouts, and death. Why would redouts be any different?


 It's the importance of the whole category of "G effect" as a factor impacting aerial combat on a larger scale that warrants attention, rather than just the individual event.

 Pyro already elaborated the fact that certain pilot physical factors are to be introduced in Combat Tour, which is a clear indication that they acknowledge the human physical factor as an important part of aerial combat, which is yet to be introduced. I see know reason why the basic system handling the mechanism cannot be made generic and applied to the MA.

Offline hubsonfire

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« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2008, 06:19:43 PM »
Kwe, I was responding to Blammo's comment, which seemed to ignore that we already had instances where a pilot might suffer G-LOC or wounding, then be fine the next sortie. I'm not opposed to this, and probably won't be until it is included in the game. ;)
mook
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Proper punctuation and capitalization go a long way towards people paying attention to your posts.  -Stoney
I was wondering why I get ignored so often.  -Hitech