109's cockpit view

[crockett]

This is not a whine, but a hope for future development improvements.

Since we are getting a new LALA with a even better view than it had before.. Is it out of the realm of possibilities to get a 109 cockpit reworked so you can see out of it?

I do realise real 109's had thick frames on their wind screens. However looking out the front was not as thick from what I can find on the web. It seems to me the the frame was thick on the sides but thin from a frontal view. In game the side and front frame is the same thickness, causing a much worse view than I think we should have.

granted this isn't the best pic.. but you can see how narrow the framework was..



It's hard to find good cockpit pictures of 109's but even this one doesn't look like the view was as bad as what we have.

http://www.adlertag.de/bilder/ila/me109x11.jpg

[Major Biggles]

set your views properly. it makes a huge difference.

[The Fugitive]

this is an "E", looks pretty tight to me



and this one....

[Anaxogoras]

The poor visibility from the cockpit was much criticized by Luftwaffe pilots.  This is one of the real historical weaknesses of the 109 family that isn't just an exaggeration or allied propaganda.

[hubsonfire]

Here's a snippet from the 109G-10 thread.

The most recognizable change was the standardized use of the "Erla-Haube" canopy, sometimes referred to (incorrectly) as the "Galland" hood. This canopy improved the pilot's view by reducing the number of support struts, which was often criticized before.

no source given

Anyone got some pics to illustrate the differences between the other canopy and this particular upgrade? Are the cockpit images in this thread from Es, Fs, early Gs, later Gs and Ks?

[Citabria]

109 cockpits are fine. just set your views at strategic places to get best all around view and its fine.

proportions and bar thickness of the canopy frame is a tad heavy but still very realistic.

besides 109s are new ah2 standard 3d meshes and textures.

the la5/la7 and about 50 other planes are still the old ah1 3d models and are getting pretty shaggy looking.

so the 109s would likely not be updated any time soon as they are fine.

[Karnak]

Ki-84's canopy framming is uglier and looks worse than most AH1 cockpit framing despite being AH2 standard.

[Citabria]

yeah ki84 is one plane that could really use a new canopy hehe. thing is hideous.

it was the prototype ah2 3d model if i remember right when they were still trying to use rediculously few polygons to model curved shapes and all.

but its probably in the line behind every other ah1 model.

[ALLEN86]

Originally posted by crockett
This is not a whine, but a hope for future development improvements.

Since we are getting a new LALA with a even better view than it had before.. Is it out of the realm of possibilities to get a 109 cockpit reworked so you can see out of it?

I do realise real 109's had thick frames on their wind screens. However looking out the front was not as thick from what I can find on the web. It seems to me the the frame was thick on the sides but thin from a frontal view. In game the side and front frame is the same thickness, causing a much worse view than I think we should have.

granted this isn't the best pic.. but you can see how narrow the framework was..



It's hard to find good cockpit pictures of 109's but even this one doesn't look like the view was as bad as what we have.

http://www.adlertag.de/bilder/ila/me109x11.jpg

it may just be me, and no-one can likely be 100% sure, but this looks an awful ot like a FW190

[moot]

The gear wells aren't under the fuselage.

[Motherland]

Originally posted by ALLEN86
it may just be me, and no-one can likely be 100% sure, but this looks an awful ot like a FW190

No offense, but that looks absolutely nothing like a 190.

[crockett]

Originally posted by The Fugitive
this is an "E", looks pretty tight to me



and this one....

Yea those look nice and have a much better view. Maybe these are the updated ones Hub's refered to?

[CAP1]

Originally posted by Anaxogoras
The poor visibility from the cockpit was much criticized by Luftwaffe pilots.  This is one of the real historical weaknesses of the 109 family that isn't just an exaggeration or allied propaganda.

that's one of the things i hate about them........i can't see anything really well over the cowling on these planes.....

[hubsonfire]

Originally posted by crockett
Yea those look nice and have a much better view. Maybe these are the updated ones Hub's refered to?

I think those are both early 109s. Top is an E, lower is maybe an F or early G? It's from a BoB website, and the cowl doesn't have really pronounced bulges.

Just seems like a few planes have some framing in places where you absolutely wouldn't want it, and I wonder how much of that is perspective, and how much (if any) is due to modelling. The Ki-84 has the same kind of deal, and it's really frustrating for lead shots. It's just difficult to believe anyone would build a fighter that was so difficult to see out of, but it seems as though this is the case.

[BlauK]

Crockett,
the outside view does not show the problem as well as some insid eviews, but YES, the problem definitely does exist!

The overly thick appearance of 109 windshield frames has been discussed and proved previously e.g. on this thread's page 2

The game does not take into consideration the thickness of the armored glass and its refraction, which in real life gives a more generous view. When comparing the same problem with P-51s, it does not exist. The P-51s have transparent see-through frames from inside .
The same fake approach could be used for 109s as well if HTC wanted to change it.

The refraction issue was later argued in this thread on pages 2, 3 and 4