Tips on the P-51

[CAP1]

hey all.......... first off, i apologize for the kind of long post to follow..........was just messing around a little in the offline practice flyin the pony. it seems to be fairly responsive, and i was thinking about trying it this tour, as part of my path outta the dweeb rides(although igf i need an ego boost, i'll run right back to them for a bit!)
 a few questions though.....it feels as though she'd make a nice turnfighter, but i never see anyone in the arenas flying her that way? i prefer turnfighting to e fighting or b-n-z'ing.......
i like the flaps comming out at 250....they seem to help a lot..and very nice visibility........

but now a couple technical questions....

1)one of the older guys in our radio control club flew ponys during the war, and a bunch of us were talking to him about it. one of the "quirks" he mentioned about the pony was the fuel tanks....he said that they always had to burn off the fuselage tank first, as she was tail heavy otherwise(and i thought i read this somewhere too). is the pony modeled this way in here? if so, how do i manually switch tanks to burn that one off first?(i've never had to worry about it in my dweeb rides....helll..the zeke can have full fuel and a drop tank and still outturn anything for the most part...or i died way too quickly to have time to worry about it).

2)we(me in particular since i fly this sim) were asking him about the gunsight, and how they used it to judge(guess?) the distance.....he had told us that they needed to know the approximate wingspan and length of the enemy plane, and they would go by how large it was compared to the reticle in the sight. if i remember correctly he had said that played a littel in how they judged their lead too(besides experience). i ask this one because where my hurri, simply has dot i think.....and my zeke has an X stood upright, the pony has a rather nice looking sight with tick marks on it, and a couple of angled lines too.....so...is there something to learn about these sights that can help me improve myself ingame?

[DoNKeY]

Originally posted by CAP1
hey all.......... first off, i apologize for the kind of long post to follow..........was just messing around a little in the offline practice flyin the pony. it seems to be fairly responsive, and i was thinking about trying it this tour, as part of my path outta the dweeb rides(although igf i need an ego boost, i'll run right back to them for a bit!)
 a few questions though.....it feels as though she'd make a nice turnfighter, but i never see anyone in the arenas flying her that way? i prefer turnfighting to e fighting or b-n-z'ing.......
i like the flaps comming out at 250....they seem to help a lot..and very nice visibility........

but now a couple technical questions....

1)one of the older guys in our radio control club flew ponys during the war, and a bunch of us were talking to him about it. one of the "quirks" he mentioned about the pony was the fuel tanks....he said that they always had to burn off the fuselage tank first, as she was tail heavy otherwise(and i thought i read this somewhere too). is the pony modeled this way in here? if so, how do i manually switch tanks to burn that one off first?(i've never had to worry about it in my dweeb rides....helll..the zeke can have full fuel and a drop tank and still outturn anything for the most part...or i died way too quickly to have time to worry about it).

2)we(me in particular since i fly this sim) were asking him about the gunsight, and how they used it to judge(guess?) the distance.....he had told us that they needed to know the approximate wingspan and length of the enemy plane, and they would go by how large it was compared to the reticle in the sight. if i remember correctly he had said that played a littel in how they judged their lead too(besides experience). i ask this one because where my hurri, simply has dot i think.....and my zeke has an X stood upright, the pony has a rather nice looking sight with tick marks on it, and a couple of angled lines too.....so...is there something to learn about these sights that can help me improve myself ingame?

The only times you want to turn fight the pony is at high speeds.  Its the best, or atleast very very close to being the best, at high speed turns, especially since it's first flap comes out at 400.  Slow to medium speed turns you really want to avoid as the pony is not the best turner in the game at all, and it has a very hard time replacing lost E through poor acceleration and climb.  The pony does hold E very well though, and with use of vertical turns and utilizing angles you can turn with better turning opponents, but if you don't make something happen and it turns into a slow speed "pull back on the stick 'till you have a shot" kinda thing you're finished.


The pony is hampered by its aux (I think thats the one) fuel tank, the one in the fueselage.  It doesn't become a problem until you load 75% fuel, which is a lot for the pony, and even then you have like 5 minutes of burn until it's gone.  The game automatically burns it first for you anyway so its not much of a problem.  Only time you have to worry is when you load 100%, and if you do that, I'm thinking you would easy burn it down before you engage anyway if you are needing that much fuel.

Can't really help you much with the sight.  I use a simple dot and no tracers so I guess I have just built up a mental image of how much lead based on thier size and how many G's I'm pulling.  Maybe someone else can help you with that.

If you have any questions about what I said go ahead and ask, I'm not sure if I explained that great or not.

donkey

[uberslet]

i dont fly the pony very much, and i havnt used the defualt sight for the past 6 months so i forget wat it looks like. but the pony is a great stall fighter, especially the Pony B. i was in DA one time, doing 100MPH w/ flaps and i was trning horibly, but most planes would drop out of sky at 100MPH (am i correct?) its flaps are nice, and i was talking to zundap, and he was telling me to use the flaps wen i dive so i dont gain to much E and cant pull out of my dive. thats all i know about the pony, sorry!

[Spatula]

IIRC, the game automatically burns off the AUX tank before the wing tanks. Think the AUX only gets juice if you go over 50%. Your best option is to take 50% and DTs and drop one DT on take off.  Then you can cruise or lighten your load and engage at your discretion.

To shift fuel tanks try SHIFT-F - that cycles between auto-select (white txt on gauge), and individual tanks (yellow on gauge). So it will cycle between Auto, AUX, Left and Right wing tanks, then Auto again etc. The auto-select will burn AUX first then alternate sips from each wing tank in turn to keep you balanced. If you switch to manual tank select, just remember to turn it back to auto or be ready to do lots of manual switching to keep wing tanks balanced. Also on manual select, the gauge only shows the fuel remaining in the selected tank.

Combat flaps will deploy at crazily high speeds - far too high IMO. IIRC, its over 350?? Dropping flaps at those speed wont help as you are limited by Gs anyway and only increase drag, which is not good given the poor acceleration qualities of the pony. Drop flaps when you come off the black-outs and start hearing stall buzzer. Flaps are useful for getting nose around/over/pulled back up when your getting too slow. Pull em back in as soon as you no longer need em. They induce drag and cost E.

As already mention the pony turns wickedly well at high speeds, more than a match for anything else in the air. The only prob is it doesn't have enough power to replace the lost speed from turning too hard, so this limits you to a few hard turns before you have to re-assess your next move. Keep her around 270 (+-10) and she'll treat you well. Set convergence in close and go hunting for the snapshots! Get out if it ain't going your way, as sustained turn contests is not its cup of tea. Make sure you leave your self enough speed or alt to be able to escape when required. Until you reach your failsafe point, push it hard and go hunting for them snapshots. The trick is to know when to cut your losses. Most wont expect you to be so aggressive in it, and you can often get them on the back foot pretty quickly, but you have to know if things are going your way in the first few turns or not.

And while the B pony can turn ever so slightly better than the D, the B lack of deck speed, only 4x50cals, and its natural high-altitude ability means its not the best option for a low furball turn-fest. The D is a much better low-alt option, IMO. Up high (above 12k) the B comes into its own and is a beast!

Here's a write up i did a while back:
http://www.my2cents.co.nz/AKUAG/TheVault_Files/P51Guide.aspx

[CAP1]

Originally posted by DoNKeY
The only times you want to turn fight the pony is at high speeds.  Its the best, or atleast very very close to being the best, at high speed turns, especially since it's first flap comes out at 400.  Slow to medium speed turns you really want to avoid as the pony is not the best turner in the game at all, and it has a very hard time replacing lost E through poor acceleration and climb.  The pony does hold E very well though, and with use of vertical turns and utilizing angles you can turn with better turning opponents, but if you don't make something happen and it turns into a slow speed "pull back on the stick 'till you have a shot" kinda thing you're finished.


The pony is hampered by its aux (I think thats the one) fuel tank, the one in the fueselage.  It doesn't become a problem until you load 75% fuel, which is a lot for the pony, and even then you have like 5 minutes of burn until it's gone.  The game automatically burns it first for you anyway so its not much of a problem.  Only time you have to worry is when you load 100%, and if you do that, I'm thinking you would easy burn it down before you engage anyway if you are needing that much fuel.

Can't really help you much with the sight.  I use a simple dot and no tracers so I guess I have just built up a mental image of how much lead based on thier size and how many G's I'm pulling.  Maybe someone else can help you with that.

If you have any questions about what I said go ahead and ask, I'm not sure if I explained that great or not.

donkey

this is good.....at least i know the fuel won't be an issue........for the convergence, i re-set it from 450 to 350 in the offline, as i've been noticing that in my dweeb planes, i've been getting in much closer than i used to before shooting..used to be 450 and up i'd shoot.....lately i've been seeing rounds hit spread around on the target, then noted that i was within 300-400 or so.........you did explain it pretty well......and i thank you for that........as i'm soon to be on the dinner menu in an arena near you:aok

[The Fugitive]

The pony is not known as a good turner low and slow, because its main strengths are in the "high and fast" areas, but it handles well as long as your smooth when low and slow. It certainly won't out turn an F4 or F6 if those are flown by a good pilot, but it will surprise and average pilot in them.

As for targeting, is a page I put together years ago that explains the use of a site in targeting.

[HomeBoy]

Originally posted by The Fugitive
The pony is not known as a good turner low and slow, because its main strengths are in the "high and fast" areas, but it handles well as long as your smooth when low and slow. It certainly won't out turn an F4 or F6 if those are flown by a good pilot, but it will surprise and average pilot in them.

As for targeting, is a page I put together years ago that explains the use of a site in targeting.

Nice page there Fugitive.  I put together a very similar page (using the same graphics interestingly enough) but yours is better than mine.

Mind if I put a link to your page on my web site?  Will that page be around for the long haul?

!

-hb

[CAP1]

Originally posted by The Fugitive
The pony is not known as a good turner low and slow, because its main strengths are in the "high and fast" areas, but it handles well as long as your smooth when low and slow. It certainly won't out turn an F4 or F6 if those are flown by a good pilot, but it will surprise and average pilot in them.

As for targeting, is a page I put together years ago that explains the use of a site in targeting.

very good explantion, and the pics help a lot...gives me something to try. another question though......the gunsight you show, you said the bogie is 300 yds out when he's in it.....is that the same for all the gunsights in ah? i still have the default one in the pony,but the other planes i've been flying have the sight that is a white circle, with a dot in the middle, two horizontal lines through the 3 and 9 oclocks, and 2 tick marks at 6 and 12.....but on all of these if i get the con within the circles, they're about 300 yds?
oh, one final thing..the simhq link in your page doesn't give me anything?

thanks!!
<>

[MjTalon]

Originally posted by The Fugitive
The pony is not known as a good turner low and slow, because its main strengths are in the "high and fast" areas, but it handles well as long as your smooth when low and slow. It certainly won't out turn an F4 or F6 if those are flown by a good pilot, but it will surprise and average pilot in them.

As for targeting, is a page I put together years ago that explains the use of a site in targeting.

Woah, nice page fugitive !   Never knew about it, and it will help me greatly .

[CAP1]

Originally posted by uberslet
i dont fly the pony very much, and i havnt used the defualt sight for the past 6 months so i forget wat it looks like. but the pony is a great stall fighter, especially the Pony B. i was in DA one time, doing 100MPH w/ flaps and i was trning horibly, but most planes would drop out of sky at 100MPH (am i correct?) its flaps are nice, and i was talking to zundap, and he was telling me to use the flaps wen i dive so i dont gain to much E and cant pull out of my dive. thats all i know about the pony, sorry!

well, i just flew the pony B in mid.........3 runs...1 death by b17, 1 disco, and one kill.....although i kinda sorta had to run to the ack to finish the guy.....i was trying to keep fast, and got 1 good snapshot on the guy..and i saw a few thingc come off his right wing......but then i let it get a little too slow, dove for speed/////and was surprised to see a spit9 staying on me as i was showing almost 500(by the red needle which i think is true?)..so i tried to chop throttle to turn figuring he wouldn't be able to match the turn.....he did though........he pretty much had me, and was tickling me at almost 1k out............it was a good fight<>if you're reading this you know who you are. anyway, it was kinda fun....not at all what i'm used to though....i'm wondering if i'm going to have to "re-learn" to be able to fly in the harder rides? and if staying in easy planes for so long was a mistake? or possibly there's a more intermediate ride i should step up to before the pony?

thanks for all of the info in here!!!!!

<>

[Agent360]

Most of you know I am a 109 driver. But I have been experimenting with the p51D in stall fighting and low speed maneuvering.

The P51D can be and in my opinion a very good stall fighter. But one must use angles.

The main advantage is the combat flaps which do come out at 350 ish. or 400 not sure on the exact speed.

The secret is to use ONE and only ONE notch of flaps on your turns. When using this tactic make your turn vertically at about a 30 degeree oblique angle. Althout the pony turns excellant at hight speeds the turn radius at over 300 is larger than most "turny" planes.

By using one notch of flaps at the merge you can whip around in an oblique turn incredibly sharp and still hold E if you reel them in quick enough.

Once you have made 50% of the turn reel the flaps in immediatly. You only need the flaps to make the nose come around.

Use your superior speed to keep just enough seperation so that u can again deploy then to make your second turn. This can be done while diving away or going up.

This tactic allows you to remain fast but turn exceptionally sharp never allowing your contact to close enough for a shot but allowing you to continue close in platform shots.

Anyone can fly it a 400mph and go up to 5k and come back down. But what usually gets someone killed is trying to slow down enough to get a good kill shot. This is when you get caught.

But if you can remain at around 300 mph or so using only one notch of flaps for turning you will find that it seems like you are flying a spit.

If you do get caught and can not gain enough seperation before the con closes to guns range then roll out all the flaps put on web and turn that sucker. Use standard verticle moves.  Roll over at the top. use verticle. It will work.

I think the pony is way understimated in its ability to stall fight.

[RedTop]

Just fly it fast....When in doubt...nose down and try to get away and regroup....Flaps help but aren't the beat all end all in the pony....learn to use that rudder better for shooting if you can.....angles are best...and scissors work well against similar airplanes.

Unfortunatley I fly it alot like the jug...whch leaves me dead most of the time.

IF you can fly that 38 (I remember you being not to bad in that thing) then the Pony will be a breeze for you to pick up.

[DoNKeY]

Originally posted by RedTop


IF you can fly that 38 then the Pony will be a breeze for you to pick up.

You think so?  I mean I know they are best utilized in different roles (pony being best at high speeds and the 38 really has to do everything to be good because it doesn't do one thing good at all, but for all intent and purposes we'll say that it isn't the high speed monster the pony is (and it isn't)).  I spent a lot of time in the pony and then made the transition to the 38, and for true dogfighting (were all of the fun is), I found that once over an initial curve, the 38 is much easier to dogfight in then the pony is.

Just thought that that is an interesting opinion, and not necessarily one that is wrong.  Care to explain??

donkey

PS:  I pretty much butchered that paragraph in terms of run on sentences, etc.  I suck...   Trying to express to many different thoughts.

[The Fugitive]

Originally posted by HomeBoy
Nice page there Fugitive.  I put together a very similar page (using the same graphics interestingly enough) but yours is better than mine.

Mind if I put a link to your page on my web site?  Will that page be around for the long haul?

!

-hb

Thanks, I made that page years ago when I took care of the site for the Mafia. When we made the switch from AWIII, I put as much info together as I could find to try and help the squad made it through the learning curve here at AH. The rest of the help page is   . Mugz took over the care of the pages a couple of years ago, so I guess its got some "staying power"  

As far as the size of the circle, you'll have to meassure your own sites. Test it off line, and crawl up behind one of the circling planes and try and center one up inside your site, and check the range.

[trotter]

First of all, when we listen to agent360, he's talking about the k4, despite what he says.



I'm just kidding. But here's my opinion. I said this to a squaddie the other day. The 109 is a NOSE UP fighter. It's climb rate will generally keep you at your optimal turning speed (and keep your enemy below his) if you make turns nose above the horizon. the pony is a NOSE DOWN fighter. Make sure that, if you do indeed have to turn, you are making low yoyos. The pony does not recover E quickly. Use your altitude to finish the fight early. If youre down to the deck and still havent gotten a shot yet, you're in trouble. The pony is a terrible horizontal stall fighter against any experienced pilot. Wait for friendlies, or gain enough separation that you feel you can low yoyo again, merge, and then win on the first few turns.