Author Topic: Debt Free!  (Read 1514 times)

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2008, 09:40:26 PM »
I disagree laser. There is a difference between wanting more and wanting to take what someone else has. Being prosperous does not automatically mean someone else must lose. Unless you believe that we have fully exploited our environment and share the lament of past others that there is nothing left to invent.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline MrBill

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« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2008, 09:41:14 PM »
Congratulations on your new status as a "private debt" free American.
We wish to applauded your fortitude and dedication to your new debt free lifestyle.
To become truly debt free please enclose a check for $30,445 to pay your portion of the public debt which we have thoughtfully pre spent for you.
The same amount is required of your wife, if you are married (a total amount of $60,890) would need to be enclosed.
Oh, hehehe, We forgot each child also owes this same amount, add an additional $30,445 for each child.

Please pay this amount as quickly as you can as each person in your household accrues an additional $276 each month as interest on the debt.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

Department of Internal Revenue service



Just messing with ya bud ;) congratulations on your new and better way of life.
We do not stop playing because we grow old
We grow old because we stop playing

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2008, 09:42:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
You should also realize that we have no evidence of what Jesus Christ said, except for that which those in power tell us he has said.


I don't agree that we have no evidence. I will agree that the evidence is not sufficient to convince without faith.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2008, 09:45:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
I disagree laser. There is a difference between wanting more and wanting to take what someone else has. Being prosperous does not automatically mean someone else must lose. Unless you believe that we have fully exploited our environment and share the lament of past others that there is nothing left to invent.


To want more is to recognize that someone else has something better.  You can't want more if you don't know what you want.


Besides, the 10 Commandments already separately list "Do not steal."  So they've already addressed that you should not TAKE what is not yours.

But to issue a decree that WANTING more is evil?

Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
I don't agree that we have no evidence. I will agree that the evidence is not sufficient to convince without faith.


It's not that we have no evidence.  It's that the only evidence we have comes from those who demand obedience.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 09:47:27 PM by lasersailor184 »
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Offline AKIron

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« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2008, 09:48:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
To want more is to recognize that someone else has something better.  You can't want more if you don't know what you want.


Besides, the 10 Commandments already separately list "Do not steal."  So they've already addressed that you should not TAKE what is not yours.

But to issue a decree that WANTING more is evil?


To covet means specifically to want what someone else has. Not something like what someone else has.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2008, 09:51:00 PM »
Congrats. :)

I've got nothing but a mortgage.

I'm feeling pretty good about that.
sand

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2008, 09:51:16 PM »
Here's an example of what is not coveting.

A son or daughter enjoys a loving family with a mother and father who love and care for each other, and to get back on topic, are debt free.

The son and/or daughter grow up wanting the same type of relationship. That is not covetous.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline eagl

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« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2008, 09:54:10 PM »
A step back towards the original topic...

Remember, one of the biggest differences between wealthy people and everyone else is that wealthy people know how to use money properly, and everyone else does not (or chooses not to).

There is a book, "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" that explains a lot of this stuff, including why kids of well off parents tend to remain well off.  It's not necessarily because of their parent's actual wealth, rather it's because they are brought up with a specific attitude about money that leads to a lifestyle of "using" money for generic personal gain, rather than simply viewing money as something used only to buy stuff.

I got lucky...  My parents raised me to view most non-essential debt as a bad thing, and also to view money as a resource as opposed to something I simply hand over to salespeople.  I did just fine without my parent's forking over cash to me, and I've been very careful about debt for my whole life.  Yes I used to make big purchases on a credit card, but they'd get paid off almost immediately.  Very large items such as my first new car and my first house were bought with traditional loans, but I paid them off far earlier than the loan terms dictated at the same time I maxed out my yearly IRA contribution.  The tradeoff was that for maybe 8 years after I started receiving a regular paycheck, I didn't have a nice TV or in fact anything else that was super nice except for a computer (duh) and a car I bought after nearly 6 years in the AF.  But I have never ever had to make a tough decision because I didn't have enough money.  If it was a necessity, it was budgeted for and prioritized over luxuries.  If I didn't really need something and didn't quite have enough money to buy it, I usually put the money for that item into some sort of investment or interest earning savings account.  By the time I could afford the item, I usually didn't want it anymore so I ended up with a nice emergency fund that went as the down payment on my first house.

The point is that although being out of debt is a great first step, the next step towards financial comfort (not necessarily wealth, but comfort) is to learn how to USE money.  And the best way to start IMHO is to start up one of those automatic contribution retirement accounts.  Many places will let you start with as little as $200 up front and $50-$100 per month automatic contribution, which is little more than beer/pizza money for most people.  Give up something you don't need, and start putting some money away in a roth IRA or other investment/savings account.  You'll learn a lot while managing the account even if it isn't very big at first, and if you're not greedy you'll have more money down the road that you didn't have to work as hard to earn.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2008, 09:57:35 PM »
But throughout the different branches of Christianity and Judaism, "Covet" is not the only word used.  Desire is also used.



But to get to your example, it is covetous.  That relationship does not belong to the son or daughter.  They had to go out into the world and get that relationship on their own.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline eagl

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« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2008, 10:05:52 PM »
I met a random NCO at the barber shop, and somehow the topic of how much kids cost came up.  He mentioned that he had 3 kids, and he was pretty young so I prepared myself to hear a story about how he was barely making ends, meet, etc.  Instead, I was very pleasantly suprised when he started talking about all the smart things he and his wife were doing.

He hadn't gotten a big tv yet.  He didn't have a gucci surround sound stereo.  He was using hand-me-down furniture.  He drove a reasonably nice car, but he bought it used.  His wife had a new car, but it was a civic or something equally inexpensive but with good reliability.  We had a great conversation and I found myself taking this guy's advice on ways to avoid wasting a lot of money getting ready to have a first child.

If he'd followed the typical pattern of join the military, immediately spend 3 years salary on a new car and tv/computer/electronics, get married a week later and then pop out 2 kids in 2 years, he'd still be on food stamps.  Instead, he didn't seem to ever worry about money and he was looking forward to paying cash for an upcoming family vacation to disneyland.

I wish more people would show the same common sense this guy had.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2008, 10:14:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
But throughout the different branches of Christianity and Judaism, "Covet" is not the only word used.  Desire is also used.



But to get to your example, it is covetous.  That relationship does not belong to the son or daughter.  They had to go out into the world and get that relationship on their own.


Do you believe the commandment "Thou shalt not covet", one of old English versions, applies to the son or daughter seeking what their parents had? If you believe that the God of Moses would deny us seeking the happiness of our parents then you and I are having a serious inability to communicate.

I'd rather not participate in hijacking this thread further. If you want to continue this discussion I'll join you in another thread.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline LePaul

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« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2008, 10:20:58 PM »
That's a great way to live.

My car will be paid off this year.  I'm working on refinancing the house, as I was stoooopid and got an Adjustable Rate in 2004.  Needless to say, at 7% now, I'm eyeing the rates daily, waiting to pounce.

I just pulled a recent credit report and discovered some medical stuff in there that apparently insurance dropped and I was never sent a bill for.  I called the Dr's office and that seems to be how they do things this way.  No word from insurance in 7 days?  Wham, off to a collection company (which, coincidentally, they also own...hmmm)

We had a chat here at the office about debt and what we would pay off, etc.  I was simply floored how many people are hauling around credit cards with balances in the $5000 to $8000 range.  Wholly!  I hope they have some good interest rates, I just couldn't bring myself into putting myself into that much debt.  I hated borrowing to buy cars, trying to minimize the loan by saving as much up front as I could.  (But hey, sometimes cars implode before you can!)

Offline LePaul

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« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2008, 10:23:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl

I wish more people would show the same common sense this guy had.


I really, really wish that the schools better prepared us youths for the responsibility of credit cards.  Knowing how important credit is, living within your means and budgeting would've have been an excellent heads-up before getting hit with pre-approved Citibank cards at graduation  :)

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2008, 10:24:19 PM »
Sorry for the hijack Sundowner. Congrats on getting free.
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Offline LePaul

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« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2008, 10:31:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
And the best way to start IMHO is to start up one of those automatic contribution retirement accounts.  Many places will let you start with as little as $200 up front and $50-$100 per month automatic contribution, which is little more than beer/pizza money for most people.  Give up something you don't need, and start putting some money away in a roth IRA or other investment/savings account.  You'll learn a lot while managing the account even if it isn't very big at first, and if you're not greedy you'll have more money down the road that you didn't have to work as hard to earn.


That's superb advice that requires some discipline.

My Dad advised me to put my raises into larger 401k, or Roth IRA deposits.  At first, I thought "No way, I FINALLY got a raise, I can finally afford (this, that)!"  But I thought more about what he said.  And my supervisor at another job had much the same approach.  He was getting ready to retire and did the same approach.  Suffice to say, he had a superb nest-egg so I could retire a bit earlier and enjoy life.

It takes a while to see results but after a few years of this, when the quarterly 401k statements come out, its amazing to see the gains.  

Eagl, guys like you in the military are some lucky to be there.  Medical costs after retiring are going to be outstanding for us non-military types.

Plan now.