Author Topic: Thoughts on HQ bomber raids (Read 1969 times)

Spikes · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2008, 11:53:46 AM »

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Originally posted by Lusche
I sorta can udnerstand the HQ raiders.

Fighting is one thing, but facing clouds of 163s is usually just a slaughter.
If you could prevent 163 from effectively participating, you wouldn't stop the fight at all. There are still a lot of other fighters that can & will engage you.

That's the thing, if you disable 163's, the escorts can take the remaining types of fighters regardless. Take a few sets of Bostons before the raid, go NOE to the 163 base, pork all the fuels (Only brings it to 75%, but it's better than nothing). This limit's the 163's flying time. Like they said, bring 5-7 ponies or jugs over the 163 base and pick off 163's as they up.

CAP1 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2008, 12:23:02 PM »

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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Isn't fighting the fight the point of a raid? How boring is it to to not only climb for 40 mins... run another 40 mins and you don't want any opposition? Why not just fly offline and call it a day?

normally, i think most would agree with that.......but bombing is idfferent.........it's all about getting your ords on target sucessfully, and then getting your ship home. when i do my bomber runs, i don't generally plane big missions like that, but i only usually run into 1 or 2 fighters too......which i sometimes dispatch fairly quickly..but as i said......once on the mission isn't done till my ships are on the ground. now in a fighter/? that's waaaay different........i drop into a furball, and as long as i get a kill or two before i die.......i'm happy:D

Saxman · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2008, 12:46:10 PM »

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Originally posted by Lusche
Actually there is even a map which hasn't any 163's enabled at all

My FAVORITE map ever.

I still think 262s should be limited as well. At LEAST to just the Zone Bases.

Stang · « **Reply #18 on:** February 10, 2008, 12:59:45 PM »

I think the 163 needs a much higher perk price. It is the most unbalancing plane in the game as is shown every time a HQ raid gets slaughtered by droves of them. 250-300 perks is probably about right to limit their numbers enough to make HQ raids viable again.

What I did find interesting in that raid last night was the performance of the TA-152 vs the P47N. At 30k, if I went into a 45 degree climbing turn the jug was unable to stay with me and fell beneath never coming close to getting guns on me. At first I thought it was just a noob behind the stick, but I did this against 3 or 4 different 47's and had the exact same result. The 152 held its E wonderfully even pulling a decent ammount of AoA and seemed to just simply outpower the jug.

I was pleasantly surprised. Might need to go to the TA and test the two at 30k+ w/ Widewing.

TalonX · « **Reply #19 on:** February 10, 2008, 01:01:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Isn't fighting the fight the point of a raid? How boring is it to to not only climb for 40 mins... run another 40 mins and you don't want any opposition? Why not just fly offline and call it a day?

HERE, HERE! Well said.

I think, however, the frustration is the volume of 163's. Quite unrealistic.

That said, it's part of the game. Yankee ingenuity will figure it out!

Kermit de frog · « **Reply #20 on:** February 10, 2008, 01:28:46 PM »

163's use rocket fuel.

I don't think you can pork the rocket fuel.

Normally 163's take off from 1 Large Airfield nearest to the HQ.

You'd have to bomb all 7 Fighter Hangers for a 15minute window of shutting down 163s. That's about 3 sectors worth for B17s at 30k.

Takes at the minimum of 3 bomber pilots all hitting the fighter hangers at the same time in 1 pass over that enemy airfield.

You still have to knock out the VH that spawns nearest to HQ as well as knock out ammo at the nearest airfield to prevent C47s from resupplying HQ. Also hitting the City Strat before this mission helps keep HQ down longer.

Spikes · « **Reply #21 on:** February 10, 2008, 01:35:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kermit de frog
163's use rocket fuel.

I don't think you can pork the rocket fuel.

Normally 163's take off from 1 Large Airfield nearest to the HQ.

You'd have to bomb all 7 Fighter Hangers for a 15minute window of shutting down 163s. That's about 3 sectors worth for B17s at 30k.

Takes at the minimum of 3 bomber pilots all hitting the fighter hangers at the same time in 1 pass over that enemy airfield.

You still have to knock out the VH that spawns nearest to HQ as well as knock out ammo at the nearest airfield to prevent C47s from resupplying HQ. Also hitting the City Strat before this mission helps keep HQ down longer.

Even killing all the FHs would be a hassle with the 163's trying to stop you from doing that. I thought FH d/t was 10 mins?

Rich46yo · « **Reply #22 on:** February 10, 2008, 01:58:59 PM »

When Talen stabbed his friends in the back and went Bish:cry We got hit by some of his HQ raids and at least to me they caused a pretty good hindrance to the Rooks. Enough that I spent a long time in goons to get the thing back up. For a couple days they kept at it and I did a lot of gooning to keep up. In my mind, from that experience, the HQ raids are worth it.

I dont often fly them because I just dont want to see 163s again. I think its terrible that an airplane that had such a negligible effect on the war, almost none actually, should have such a big impact on this game. I dont believe the airplane belongs here.

But...others like it, which is cool, so I just avoid them. Much would be solved if they were just perked higher. I know many of those who fly 163s are very good in other types of fighters but I have seen the sky go red with the things, even outnumbering bombers in huge bomber raids. Its just gotten silly with the 163s and I avoid runs where your likely to see them.

AquaShrimp · « **Reply #23 on:** February 10, 2008, 02:02:20 PM »

And whats to stop 163s from upping and destroying the bombers that are trying to destroy the 163 base's FHs?

Stang · « **Reply #24 on:** February 10, 2008, 02:03:07 PM »

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Originally posted by Rich46yo
When Talen stabbed his friends in the back and went Bish:cry

Kermit de frog · « **Reply #25 on:** February 10, 2008, 02:05:21 PM »

I posted what you had to do, nothing more.

AquaShrimp · « **Reply #26 on:** February 10, 2008, 02:16:06 PM »

On the HQ raid I flew before Talens, I managed to knock down two Me163s and a La7 with the guns of my B17s. All it really takes are some competent gunners. The problem most bombers face is that the workload suddenly increases exponentially when they get within 25 miles of the HQ. They have to calibrate the bombsight, line up on target, maintain formation, keep speed stabilized, and fight off swarms of me163s. Its a wonder any bombers get through at all!

MjTalon · « **Reply #27 on:** February 10, 2008, 03:06:37 PM »

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Originally posted by Overlag
i kinda think its silly that these AA HQ raides are done at 30K + when B17s never used to do that... also at full throttle too...

but then it does kinda make sense when you get to the HQ and get ruined.

i created a HQ thread in the Wishlists forums, i wish it would go back to the old ways of a % of damage kills dot dar, and only full 100% damage to the whole city kills the HQ. that way it would be more effective/realistic compaired to bombing 1 big building.

163s are a pain, but as most others said, get a small wing of p47D40s or something to go in, kill the fuel/ack (hell even the FH's if your fast enough) and cap the field.

to those saying whats the point of flying online if you dont want the fight... they do want the fight... but 163s are horrific and generally these days are the only option a country uses on defending there HQ. very few will up 262s/152s or whatever, they just choose the easy option.

I been on the recieving end of a AAolds/Talen HQ raid, and its quality, i got 4 kills in a Ta152 before i rammed a 1 wing'ed B17, 3 kills in a 262 before i blew up, and 4 in a 163 which again i rammed someone with lol

i want to be on for the next one so i can switch countries and be a part of it (as long as they not hitting knits lol).

Alrighty, here is why i run raids at 30k+.

-Normally, at 30k+ Prop based fighters ( not including the 152 ) Have difficulty trying to set up a pass on the formation that high, only problem are basically the 163s and Ta 152s. So i run missions that high the conventional interceptors have trouble climbing, setting up a run on the bombers.

- Donkey, i run em About once a week, maybe 2. All depends on the time, and amount of players we have online. Join rooks sometime

.

-Rich, i totally understand how ya feel bro, i wondered why ya didn't join up on the mission last night.

-Shrimp, You are correct sir. If all of the bombers had secondary gunners, the gunners could focus on the 163s, while the pilots concentrate on the target, formation, and overall SA. Once those 163s make an appearance, anyone without a gunner WILL have there work cut out for them trying to do everything you stated below at once. Think i might add that into the factor on my next HQ raid.

Overall in general folks, trying to maintain a formation at 30k is somewhat difficult. You have to take into the fact that even when people join up on the mission ( i have my buffs hold the runway until ALL bombers are spawned in ). There's going to be some AFK people which will miss some instructions, causing some of the bombers to fall behind greatly. But it's doable, you just have to have the bombers at a stable speed, in and around the lead, so all of the guns will be focused on the enemy interceptors.

Wolfskin · « **Reply #28 on:** February 14, 2008, 10:53:47 PM »

I am very interested in doing strategic work and not just base hopping.

I sorta feel like the war can be won easier with the enemies' resources bombed to smithereens. Problem is no one seems to have the patience for it. Or agree. I get laughed at. A lot. Seems the game is out of balance somewhat. It used to be a more viable option anyways.

Is there a squad out there with a fetish for strat bombing?

I'll certainly look around for Talon's missions

(wheehaw, first post in nearly a decade)

ghi · « **Reply #29 on:** February 14, 2008, 11:36:01 PM »

massive HQ raids and denfend against,used to be the best fun in AH1,

imop, the game needs few changes to ecouraje players to attack and defend HQ:

--bring back the 4 steps progressive damage model for HQ, like in AH1, even if is not total destroyed, the bomber pilot gets something, not only 30mm shells, for the long flight and bombing skills, maybe more perks also

---HQ downtime, at least 30 min without resup option, now the HQ is resuped before the bombers get back to base

-- i would go to a formula where even the war is lost and map reset if the HQ is destroyed, like in chess, atack the king,you can have all the toys on the table but still get checkmate: If Hitler would have been killed , i'm sure WW2 would have finished early: This 40% of the both enemy bases win/reset model, makes the game inactive and boring with same map for weeks