Author Topic: This is what happens when you defend your home here. (Read 1942 times)

Shuffler · « **Reply #30 on:** February 11, 2008, 02:24:22 PM »

lol yup if they were so quick to get there they could have saved the criminal. But since they were not quick enough they chose to make a criminal out of the victim instead. Sounds like the DA lives in an upscale protected area and has no idea about true crime.

REP0MAN · « **Reply #31 on:** February 11, 2008, 02:33:01 PM »

The real question is; Have any of you made a 911 call of angry man trying to break into little old man's home in rural Northeast Oklahoma?

I've lived in Phoenix and understand the response times of a major metro area. This location is NOT one of those places. This county is 762 square miles and as of 2006, has a population of 14,800 people. The call that the two deputies received first was of a man trying to break into a house forcibly. That, at that time, warranted an immediate response with lights and sirens. The county operated, at that time, 4 deputies on day shift, 4 on nights. The county was separated into two sectors, north and south. Coupled with the fact that the north-sector deputies most likely had nothing better to do; their response was direct and immediate.

Sure, there are extra-ordinary circumstances at play here but it goes to show you that the real elements of crime can, and sometimes do, take place when an innocent citizen protects his property with life-threatening means. If you come through my door in the middle of the night, you will get shot at. I will be shooting to kill. Does that mean that I may or may not have that right? I don't know. It completely depends on the situation.

I think we're all in agreement on the base of the issue.

lazs2 · « **Reply #32 on:** February 11, 2008, 02:44:28 PM »

repoman.. I am sorry but.. unless that department had a 100% record of showing up in less than a minute... I am gonna go for the shotgun first and the phone second.. and probly the shotgun no matter what the record was.

You say "direct and immediate" I say someone trying to come through the front door is a little more "direct and immediate" he could get through in seconds.

I want to have the best tool in hand.. I don't want to lose any concentration on the situation.. hell.. they tell us now that we can't even drive a car and talk on the phone at the same time...

How the hell are we supposed to contain such a situation and talk on the phone... or.. use a shotgun effectively with one hand on the shotgun and the other with a phone held up to our ear?

I respect cops and their job.. I do not trust anyone to take care of such a situation but myself tho.

Like I said.. I would have told the daughter to call the cops. but I wouldn't have let even one hand off that shotgun or even a fraction of my concentration off the situation.

lazs

REP0MAN · « **Reply #33 on:** February 11, 2008, 02:55:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
repoman.. I can't disagree with the decision more strongly..

I feel that to protect my home and family that the first thing I should do is get the best tool possible in hand... if that tool would have been a phone then I would have passed up a shotgun to get to that phone.

But.. a phone is not a deterrent in any way and so I would not take the time to use it if I were going for the best tool for the job..

The firearm.

I probly would have gone for the shotgun and asked the daughter to call the cops (if it was safe to use the phone.. the phone in a safe place).

Not only is the phone a crap solution as born out by history but.. by this case itself.. the neighbor used the phone and called the cops.. it did no good whatsoever.

The only thing that stopped the crime was the shotgun.. not a phone. spending time to get the worst tool seems counter to best practicable policy.

lazs

Lazs, I couldn't agree with you more. I am not disagreeing with anyone here.

There are so many "what if's" involved here. Any element you change can drastically change the outcome for both the Ex, the Dad, the Daughter and the involvement of the DA.

What if he called 911? He would have received the same response. Could the deputies arrive and essentially save the Ex from death and the Dad from jail? I haven't a clue.

What if he called 911 and dropped the phone while he "dealt" with the intruder? Would that have changed things? Beats me.

My point is that in every situation there will be elements like this that will affect the outcome for the bad guy, the citizen and the judicial involvement. There is no way to blanket the situation and say you "wouldda done this" or "wouldda done that".

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #34 on:** February 11, 2008, 05:35:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by REP0MAN
Lazs, I couldn't agree with you more. I am not disagreeing with anyone here.

There are so many "what if's" involved here. Any element you change can drastically change the outcome for both the Ex, the Dad, the Daughter and the involvement of the DA.

What if he called 911? He would have received the same response. Could the deputies arrive and essentially save the Ex from death and the Dad from jail? I haven't a clue.

What if he called 911 and dropped the phone while he "dealt" with the intruder? Would that have changed things? Beats me.

My point is that in every situation there will be elements like this that will affect the outcome for the bad guy, the citizen and the judicial involvement. There is no way to blanket the situation and say you "wouldda done this" or "wouldda done that".

But there is. By you being a little pansy waffler you are giving credence to those who wish to take away guns and especially those who wish to take away the right to defend yourself.

Either it is alright to KILL someone trying to forcibly trying to enter your house to do whatever he wants, or it isn't. There is no middle ground. There is no weighing the specific circumstances. You either blow his ****ing head off, or you wait and pray that the cops are nearby and able to show up in time.

But let me tell you, ask any victim. That 4 - 30 minutes waiting for a cop is a LONG time.

TwentyFo · « **Reply #35 on:** February 11, 2008, 06:28:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
repoman.. I can't disagree with the decision more strongly..

The firearm.

I probly would have gone for the shotgun and asked the daughter to call the cops (if it was safe to use the phone.. the phone in a safe place).

Not only is the phone a crap solution as born out by history but.. by this case itself.. the neighbor used the phone and called the cops.. it did no good whatsoever.

The only thing that stopped the crime was the shotgun.. not a phone. spending time to get the worst tool seems counter to best practicable policy.

lazs

Maybe the guy was in a dilusional state of mind and thought that it was his house.

We should take away all the guns and make everyone learn various forms of karate. Problem solved.

TwentyFo · « **Reply #36 on:** February 11, 2008, 06:30:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lasersailor184
But there is. By you being a little pansy waffler you are giving credence to those who wish to take away guns and especially those who wish to take away the right to defend yourself.

Karate is the answer...duh.

john9001 · « **Reply #37 on:** February 11, 2008, 06:33:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by TwentyFo
We should take away all the guns and make everyone learn various forms of karate. Problem solved.

that statement is so wrong in so many ways.

Sundowner · « **Reply #38 on:** February 11, 2008, 07:14:08 PM »

I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Regards,
Sun

Jackal1 · « **Reply #39 on:** February 12, 2008, 04:48:01 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Charge
Dunno, wrong door, he was having a piss? Is that a reason to kill somebody? The guy shot him in the lower part of the body but some idiot might as well aim for the head if there was no consequences.

While I am able to defend my home I'd call the police and let the intruder know that I know of his presence and if he enters I would shoot. I would end up in court no doubt and probably get a some marginal fine which would hurt much less than the 44Mag bullet hole in his leg. Welcome again.

If you are shooting for the leg you have a big problem anyway.
Might as well shoot yourself in the foot. It would be less painful.

Charge · « **Reply #40 on:** February 12, 2008, 06:16:43 AM »

"I am gonna go for the shotgun first and the phone second.. and probly the shotgun no matter what the record was."

Well it depends of the immediate threat but I think that is the right order too. If the commiehomolibruldrugaddiekosm onautsquirrel (gosh, did I forgot something?) forces him/herself in the house deal with it right away and sort it out later.

"not shooting the poofter in the head and killing the liberal scum criminal drug addict! HAH. And people think that I'm an ass."

Makes sense, doesn't it?

-C+

MiloMorai · « **Reply #41 on:** February 12, 2008, 06:22:20 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Jackal1
If you are shooting for the leg you have a big problem anyway.
Might as well shoot yourself in the foot. It would be less painful.

Shooting someone in the leg can kill the person. Hit the major blood vessel and he bleeds to death real quick.

Charge · « **Reply #42 on:** February 12, 2008, 06:30:10 AM »

Well if he'd look like not fitting to my political agenda I'd try to hit him in the knee. Less bleeding and in the future you'd recognize the bugger from a limp miles away.

Besides Jackal, if you cannot hit a friggin leg in such short ranges you really should consider ditching the gun and buying some lube instead. After all the bugger HAS to keep his legs to the ground if he tries to move. Hands or head as a target are another matter altogether.

-C+

lazs2 · « **Reply #43 on:** February 12, 2008, 08:05:51 AM »

repoman.. I think we agree. I see nothing wrong with calling the cops but.. only after I have secured a means of stopping the intruder.

I agree that in a non tense situation.. if you have icewater for blood.. you could call the cops and drop the phone if things escalated. I believe that in the back of the guys mind.. he probly thought it wouldn't get that far anyway.

very few people even believe it is happening to them.. even while it is happening.. they think it will all end somehow..

like twenty fo.. for instance.. he would be weeping and pleading as he was being stomped to death while trying to show the guy his karate trophy that he won his pink belt with in the non contact dance contest at his local dooooo jooooe.

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #44 on:** February 12, 2008, 08:09:25 AM »

as for hitting stuff... shooting the guns out of peoples hands and "winging" them and such... unless you really don't need to shoot... have all the time in the world.. that is about as stupid a tactic as I have ever heard.

I would invite you to come with me to shoot moving ground squirrels or jacks. I would love to see this marksmanship. the lone ranger could do it but.. no matter how hard I try... I never seem to be able to hit a moving target the size of a leg with a hip shot with any real consistency.

You may have noticed that even aiming for the torso at close range... It takes cops about 20 rounds to hit someone.

lazs