Author Topic: This is what happens when you defend your home here.  (Read 1976 times)

Offline Maverick

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This is what happens when you defend your home here.
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2008, 02:06:52 PM »
No matter how many times it happens anywhere, it only takes once for it to happen to you and then nothing else may ever happen in your life.
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Offline lazs2

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This is what happens when you defend your home here.
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2008, 02:13:19 PM »
rich46... I know you don't like me but we do agree on the basics of this.. on more than the basics really.   I have been in a few situations in the bad old days.

I have no idea how anyone would train for em.   I have no idea how anyone could know beforehand how they would react.  

lazs

Offline Thruster

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« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2008, 03:23:30 PM »
I   g u e s s   I ' l l   h a v e   t o   t y p  e   r e a l  s l o w.....

Not really, just try to keep up.

Here, the issue as I read it was that the police arrested a guy for shooting an intruder, so far it seems the story was as told, halfway around the world. I don't know exactly what went down, nor do you and I'll bet maybe not even the local P.D.

The conversation seemed to be about whether it was wrong to prosecute the shooter, simply because of the circumstance as reported. It then became about at what point trying to kill somebody was ok.

I simply offered that in a society such as ours we need to be circumspect about these cases because sometimes it's wrong to kill somebody on your property, and sometimes those that do will lie about what happened.

I know from my fairly limited experience people don't usually just bust into stranger's homes bent on pillage, unless of course they're S.W.A.T. (WTG No Knock)

I also figure that somebody looking primarily to steal is going to prefer a vacant house. That's why most burglaries happen during the day.

I don't want to take umbrage with the comment regarding rape, but I think it's a cheap shot. From the very little I understand about those cases, I wonder how they would fit this discussion i.e. most victims know their attacker, roofies, victims attacked with stealth, never saw it coming. etc.

We're not talking about interrupted burglaries, lost Alzheimer's patients or kid's selling cookies. We're talking about somebody breaking in (or threatening to do so) your house with the intent of hurting someone, or otherwise causing mayhem as it can be hard to distinguish.
As far as the assumption that a police investigation can't be tricked, think again.

I just wonder if many if not most of these cases are more of the John Holmes variety (busted into a coke dealers house, shot up the place, stole the coke).

And Rich, here's the question's about the old lady. I know there are probably answers but it's not a good place for a full dialog.

-  Was it a break in? Or did the intruder mask the break in so the neighbors couldn't tell? No wrong answer, it just wasn't mentioned.
-  Crack head nephew? Door to Door salesman?
-  Don't know if an elderly person is best served by being armed at any rate. Would having a gun in the house just allowed her to have an open
   casket?

And just for the record since since for some, seemingly, it needs to be spelled out......

Yeah, IF someone busts through my door (or yours) or somehow clearly telegraphs malevolent intent from the other side of it, it's open season.
But I can tell a couple of stories where that was not the case but the claim was made and in one case, believed.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2008, 08:54:55 AM »
thruster..  I have no problem with what you are saying..  you don't shoot someone who is not a threat.   the trick is to determine if the person is a threat or not.

I would tell anyone that I would ere to the side of thinking the worst but the truth is..  I did have a gun on a person on my property stealing gas.. he even reached into his jacket at one time... I did not shoot him.. he was a kid.  I have no idea what he was reaching for but I felt that it could not harm me before I could shoot him.. he had already spit gas and was in obvious distress.. he was scared... witless.. he was probly 17..  I only noticed how young he was as things got less tense.   My then wife was screaming "don't shoot him"..

I told him to get up and get into his car and get the..  out of here before I did shoot him.. "no.. leave the gas can and crap.."

I may have made a mistake but I don't think so.. he was a kid stealing gas and not good at it.   I believe it was one of his first times..  I also believe that..   after what happened.. it was his last time..  not his last time to take a breath..  just the last time to steal from a home.

some may not agree but in this situation.. I think I made the right choice.   he did reach into his jacket.. that was a good excuse to shoot but..  I didn't... I didn't think it was anything that was an immediate threat.. no matter what he came out with.. he couldn't harm me before I shot him several times.   I felt in control of the situation.

lazs

Offline Yknurd

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This is what happens when you defend your home here.
« Reply #64 on: February 13, 2008, 09:25:07 AM »
You may not believe this but I practice intruder drills.

Once a month or so I wake up drunk and naked, grab my gun and run to the front door screaming obscenities like, "Get the **** out of here or I'll KILL you!!!"

Yeah, that's how I roll.
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Offline TwentyFo

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This is what happens when you defend your home here.
« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2008, 11:29:32 AM »
Just make bullets more expensive. If a bullet cost $10,000 then there wouldn't be any innocent bystanders--- Chris Rock
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Offline Iron_Cross

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« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2008, 01:07:48 PM »
Thruster, I'm not saying that investigators can't be fooled.  They are people after all, and P. T. Barnum said, "You can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

IMHO, you are trying to split a hair that just isn't there.  Your quote:


We're not talking about interrupted burglaries, lost Alzheimer's patients or kid's selling cookies. We're talking about somebody breaking in (or threatening to do so) your house with the intent of hurting someone, or otherwise causing mayhem as it can be hard to distinguish.


Thruster, even once, is one time to many.  You go to the next family that this happens to and tell them, "I'm sorry, this is not right.  This is a statistical aberration.  Somehow you brought this on yourselves."  See what kind of reaction you get.

Yes, it sometimes can be hard to distinguish what someones intentions are.  Lazs2 showed remarkable restraint, even tho the kid unknowingly ratcheted up the situation by putting his hand in his pocket.  Lazs2 had to make a decision, "Is this person going to harm me, my family?" AT THAT POINT Lazs2 would have felt that his life was in danger, and justified in pulling the trigger, if the answer was YES.  Nobody should have to ask that question themselves.  Everybody that has, and done something to protect themselves, has had to live with the aftermath of that decision and their actions.

Offline Sabre

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« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2008, 01:44:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Charge
"This is what happens when liberals are in charge!"

Plug you head out of your ass? Hard? Just head for the light!!! Quick!

No, seriously. The story tells that the younger man allegedly tried to break in. Note: a l l e g e d l y.



In the US and, unless I'm wrong, Australia all crimes are officially "alleged" until the defendant is found guilty in a trial.  The statement from the paper that says the man "allegedly tried to break in" does not in itself say whether the evidence supports the allegation, only that it has not yet gone to trial and a conviction made.  It may have been perfectly obvious to the homeowner (and apparently is obvious to the police, as they intend to charge the alleged burgaler, as well as the homeowner) that the man was in the process of breaking and entering.  He may have even warned the intruder that he was armed.  That detail is not apparent in the article.

There can be no assumption that the homeowner acted either in haste of without due consideration of the circumstances.  Frankly, I will meet any attempted invasion of my home with force, as my town has only one patrol car (with a single officer) patrolling during the night.  On average, it would take the police anywhere from 5 minutes to 45 minutes to respond to a 911 call, but as little as a minute for an assailent to kill either myself or a family member.  Police are only good to take names and clean up the mess; they can not prevent a crime unless they are already present (and sometimes not even then).  Giving up the right to bear arms to protect your home and family was one of the dumbest things a free people can do.
Sabre
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Offline EagleDNY

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Could be worse, you could live in MD...
« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2008, 01:56:02 PM »
It could be worse - you could be here in MD where you are now supposed to flee if at all possible when some criminal comes a knockin' down the door.  Grabbin' your gun and shooting the SOB is pretty much right out unless you can prove conclusively that you had no other choice.

Thats why I employ the multiple-K9 security system -- anyone stupid enough to kick in our door gets a face full of snarling dogs, and I find the "dogs going nuts" crime deterrence system seems to work pretty well.

It also saves me having to teach the wife how to shoot ;)

EagleDNY

Offline lazs2

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This is what happens when you defend your home here.
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2008, 02:27:08 PM »
twenty fo...  I have no problem with them making bullets cost whatever they want....

I make my own anyway.

I seriously doubt tho that there will ever be a day that a liberal negro gives good advice about anything... much less firearms.

lazs

Offline john9001

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« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2008, 04:22:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TwentyFo
Just make bullets more expensive. If a bullet cost $10,000 then there wouldn't be any innocent bystanders--- Chris Rock


i guess you and chris never heard of smuggling and the black market.

Offline lutrel

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« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2008, 05:35:28 PM »
Just three nights ago the wife and I were in bed when our two small dogs, that sleep at our feet, jumped up and started growling.  I was a sleep, but the wife was still awake when the dogs jumped up.  She shook me awake and said "I think I heard glass break in one of the back rooms"; she was scared and I knew she was serious.  

I grabbed the pistol off my bed stand and chambered a round, then went to the dresser and got the other pistol for her.  I chambered a round in her pistol and put it on safety before giving it to her.  I told her all she needed to do was click the safety off and it would be ready to fire.

I told her to stay in the bed room as I cleared the house with a mag lite and my pistol.  I have to tell ya I was scared and shaking a little as I worked my way from room to room.  I was happy to find everything clear in the house and all the windows and doors locked and in good condition.

I can't say that I would of had to shoot anyone that night, but I will say I was prepared to do so if I had too.  I have no idea what spooked the dogs that night, but it sure had my heart pumping.
Lutrel AkA "Lut"
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Offline Leslie

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« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2008, 06:00:22 PM »
There was one time I displayed a gun to someone trying to enter my car stopped in traffic.  I was stopped in traffic on a busy main street in front of a bus stop, and a large fellow dressed in white (possibly a jail trustee?) got up from the bench and walked right over smiling like he knew me and tried the door handle.  This person was unknown by me.  He was a white man, not particularly menacing in appearance.

I had been downtown doing some parking lot cleanup and had a wheelbarrow and shovel in the trunk.  The trunk was open in back and blocked any rearward view.  Well, this fellow tried both the passenger door and the rear door, found both locked and started becoming upset.  He started pounding on the window and then kicking it.  About that time I showed him I had a gun though I hadn't unholstered it.  Perhaps this was half hearted but I was hoping he would see this and go away.  This was a serious mistake because it didn't seem to deter him and he became more upset.  Most people in their right mind would back off.  

At this point I was plenty scared because the gun had not deterred him and I couldn't see what was going on back of the car.  I was thinking, what if he came around to my side of the car?  Fortunately traffic moved and so did I.  He was screaming obscenities when I moved forward.  I may have run over his foot because he was standing by the rear passenger door roundhouse kicking the window.  Before traffic moved I was worried he might come around to my side of the car.  I couldn't see behind the car because of the open trunk.  I had the window rolled up.  There were plenty of options available before resorting to a gun, even if it meant driving up on the curb to get around cars in front of me.

I believe this guy could have been mentally unbalanced and possibly dangerous.   I'm glad the doors were locked.  If the guy had gotten in, it would have been better for him not to know I had a gun.  The only time that gun should come out is to shoot.  It was a mistake to count on the sight of a gun to be a deterrent.

 




Les

Offline texasmom

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« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2008, 06:06:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yknurd
You may not believe this but I practice intruder drills.

Once a month or so I wake up drunk and naked, grab my gun and run to the front door screaming obscenities like, "Get the **** out of here or I'll KILL you!!!"

Yeah, that's how I roll.

lolololol :lol  :lol  :aok  :rofl :lol
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Offline bustr

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« Reply #74 on: February 13, 2008, 06:31:46 PM »
Leslie,

Showing a willingness to use a firearm may have more impact on the sane.

I used to carry because a number of killings had happened within a mile of my work place in 1998. Some were attempted robberies of people like myself walking to their cars at 2 or 3 in the morning.

I went home early one day to find a gentelman on my property with a butcher knife cutting flowers from a side garden. We were in the bad situation of my asking him to leave my property and he declining saying he had permission to be there specificly to cut my flowers. He said my wife had given him permission. I asked him to tell me her name and to show me what he had just hidden behind his back. He refused to answer both questions.

I was fortunate that I had my truck between us. I carried my glock in a fanny pack. So while he was lieing to me I unzipped it and brought my glock up on the hood so he could see it.

I had several problems.

First I'm white and he was black and it was Oakland CA. Shooting him outside of the house was not going to look good even if he attacked me. Second, I didn't really want to be in the situation I was in. Shooting him was going to make my life a living heck even if it I was found justified. Being there is not near as fun as watching it on television. Third, I didn't want to be attacked, I didn't want to kill anyone, and I could not read his mind to tell if he just wanted to run away.

My solution, I gave him two choices. A. Run Away NOW. B. I Will Kill You.

He ran away as soon as I gave him an out. I only had to show him my glock.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.