Ostwind and Wirbelwind!!!

[Fariz]

Seems this will add some firepower to the field defenders.

[FrodeMk3]

Originally posted by Larry
This may be the solution to dive bombing lancs.

The WW guns' won't be able to do any more about that than the Ostie does now.

But with the sudden suprises' lately, Maybe we'll finally see something like the CV guns' at the Airfields. THAT would be the solution to DB Lancs'. Heck, maybe thats' why the patch isn't released yet, so they can finish the details' on the airfield 88's...

[Oleg]

Originally posted by Larry
I think perking something that can be disabled with less then ten .50cals is kinda stupid.

In that case all planes must be unperked
I think, WW must be perked just because nobody will use M16 or Ostwind otherwise.

BTW, every time HTC announce new plane/vehicle somebody ask to perk it. Guys even ask to perk T-34

[moot]

It's not going to be worth more than 5-10 perks max.  The M16 is still more useful to get somewhere in a hurry, e.g. giving M3s or M8s cover.

[Karnak]

It shouldn't be perked.

Ostwind = long range, reach out and touch (kill) somebody with one hit.

Wirbelwind = short ranged shredder

M-16 = fast traveling AA defense with a higher ENY value that will always be available despite ENY limitations on the Ostwind and Wirbelwind.

No perks.

[Wingnutt]

Originally posted by Karnak
It shouldn't be perked.

Ostwind = long range, reach out and touch (kill) somebody with one hit.

Wirbelwind = short ranged shredder

M-16 = fast traveling AA defense with a higher ENY value that will always be available despite ENY limitations on the Ostwind and Wirbelwind.

No perks.

the Wirbel will probably have have about the same EFFECTIVE range as the osti

so its a better armored, FAR more lethal albeit slightly slower M16..

add to that the fact that it will be and Effective anti-tank weapon, and will be equally useful for taking down town..

you have relatively well protected GV that is lethal to  anything ground or air based near it..    it can drive on to a V base, kill the tanks at it, de-ack it, then kill any aircraft that come try and stop it.

[moot]

No.. One hit with an ostie is a kill.  A hit with the WW will be damaging but not lethal.  The Ostie can land hits out to 3K, and even with little kinetic energy as it usualy has out that far, the explosive energy is still enough to toast anything smaller than a TBM pretty much everytime.
It's also more than slightly slower than the M16.  It won't be that good at killing tanks either.  One 75-88mm shot in the right spot will kill it easily before it gets in range to return fire effectively.

One thing I have seen in Il2 (the game) that's made me wonder is M16s' tracers out way further than 1.5K.  How far would those 50cals travel before they lost the ability to make any significant damage?

[Wingnutt]

Originally posted by moot
No.. One hit with an ostie is a kill.  A hit with the WW will be damaging but not lethal.  The Ostie can land hits out to 3K, and even with little kinetic energy as it usualy has out that far, the explosive energy is still enough to toast anything smaller than a TBM pretty much everytime.
It's also more than slightly slower than the M16.  It won't be that good at killing tanks either.  One 75-88mm shot in the right spot will kill it easily before it gets in range to return fire effectively.

One thing I have seen in Il2 (the game) that's made me wonder is M16s' tracers out way further than 1.5K.  How far would those 50cals travel before they lost the ability to make any significant damage?

the osti round goes out to 3K yea, but hits at that range are rare at best

yes, 1 ping with an osti is lethal, but 1 ping from the WW can just as easy end your flight.. perhaps not with an instant trip to the tower, but a slightly longer one to the ground..


i have to argue that it wont be good at killing tanks,  tanks get killed by Ostis all the time..   inside 2.0 the WW will probably be much more lethal than the osti.. can get the range quicker, and do the damage just as fast...

[moot]

No, not "just as easily".   You're still guessing at all this.  The facts required to guarantee that a single WW hit out at 1.5K will just as easily send down a fighter size target to the ground as a single Ostwind hit just aren't available yet.  The WW in game i mean.
It's not uncommon at all to take a 23mm hit from an Il2 and fly off.

Osties kill tanks all the times, but so would jeeps if we counted the drive-thru exploits.. It's not a meaningful measure of lethality.
You don't let something like an Ostie or WW within 2K (nevermind 1.5-1K) of your tank anymore than a full blown battlecruiser would let zodiacs with gattling guns mounted on them close enough to suffer damage from them.

And now that I think about it, I haven't seen an ostie kill a tank (aside from kill credit by accumulating shallow damage) since the old days when 50cals popped panzers.
Taking a WW into a vbase and tearing down everything is just not likely.  AAA, man acks, tanks ranging you from 4K all the way to point blank... And no more armor than a regular panzer, even less on the turret?

[Wingnutt]

See Rule #8

[moot]

There is the fact that the WW's 20mm can't be much more powerful than the Il2 23mm. The il2 23mm can be taken in by fighters without dying or often without even losing parts.
The WW's range will probably be 1.5K, after which the bullets just disappear, just like every other round smaller than 40mm.

If you can get within 2K of a tank and not die shortly after, you're either very lucky and in the far end of the bell curve, or you've got a clueless player in the tank.

The only tank I see the WW being trouble for is the M4.  Oops, the M4 has the flatest ballistic and one of (if not the) the punchiest rounds... No joy with that one either, unless the pilot is deaf and blind.  Maybe a kill on the pintle gun.

The fact is that (unless I'm mistaken) the WW will have the same sort of turret protection as the ostie.  You don't just waltz into a vbase on your own with those.  You do lose your turret very easily... it just takes a few 50cals or well placed 303s, or even a single round from an M8 in the right spot.

The only unknown is the 20mm ballistics and lethality, which is part of what you're basing yourself on to say that it can walk into a vbase and tear it all down unharmed and needs to be perked.

[Elfie]

I don't think a Wirblewind will be killing tanks. 20mm rounds from planes don't kill tanks so why should the 20mm rounds from the Wirblewind be killing tanks? The WW won't be getting AP rounds, it will get HE rounds. We'll probably see WW's disabling tanks by tracking them though.

One round from a WW won't be likely to kill a plane unless you hit the pilot or engine. It takes a small burst of 20mm to kill planes so I suspect the same will be true for the WW as well.

The last time I remember one of my tanks being killed by an Ostwind was when the Ostwind still had AP rounds instead of the HE rounds they have now.

[moot]

The WW 20mm will be punchier than A2A 20mm's.. It's not restricted in weight or recoil as the latter are.

[Bruv119]

This is great!

Can't wait to take up my A20 and bomb these suckers.


I see how guys without a decent shot in the osty will like this but for me if it can't shoot over 1k its pretty much useless.   It will come in handy when a base is being mass vulched for sure.


How will the damage model work? will all 4 x turrets be killed in one pass or are they indivadually modelled?


Bruv
~S~

[Elfie]

Originally posted by moot
The WW 20mm will be punchier than A2A 20mm's.. It's not restricted in weight or recoil as the latter are.

Do we know which 20MM cannon the German's used in the WW? If so, was it different than the MG151's that were used in 109's and 190's?

I'm looking now online to see which cannons it had but not having much luck yet.