Machine review/advice

[BaldEagl]

I'm considering buying a new machine.  Before I post the parts list, let me explain a few things.

When I bought my first machine in 1996, it was about one step below the top of the line at the time.  In it's final configuration:

IBM
150 MB PII
32 MB RAM
2 MB on-board video
Soundblaster sound card
4 GB HD
Windows 95

Sadly, technology was advancing quickly and within 2 years it was obsolete but I stretched it another year.  Then I bought my second machine, again, about one step below the then current top of the line.  This was in 1997 and it is still the machine I'm using today.  In it's current configuration:

Dell Dimension T-600
600 MB PIII
512 MB PC100/133 SRAM
64 MB G-Force MX-440
Soundblaster Live Value
2x 120 GB Western Digital ATA 100 HD's
Windows 98  

Yes, I know it's pitiful by today's standards but the configuration is clean and I still get 15-35 fps with it in almost all situations in-game (Aces High II).  Beyond that, my financial condition over the past several years has been strained at best, and while I don’t see an immediate end to this, I'm close to finally biting the bullet and upgrading my machine.

That said, I don't want to buy something cheap just to get something.  I want something with solid current-state performance and the flexibility to be able to upgrade it well into the future (who knows, it might have to last me the next ten years).  To that end, I've spent the past month and a half searching, researching, weighing pros and cons and price, and think I've come up with what I'm looking for.

I'm literally going to have to start from scratch with everything as the technology in my current machine is now obsolete.  Because of that, I'm going to keep my current machine intact and keep it for... well... I'm not sure but I'll just keep it for now.  I will transfer my 19" Viewsonic CRT monitor to the new machine for now and pull my Sony Trinitron 17" out of storage for the old machine.

What I'd like to know is;

Are there places where I can gain a significant savings without a significant hit to performance or future upgrade possibilities?

Are there places where, with a small additional investment I'll gain a lot in terms of performance or future upgrade possibilities?

Is there an obviously better choice among any of these components that I’ve missed?

Is everything I've picked out compatible?

I'm not planning on over clocking at this point.  I don't want to void any warranties.  Can I over clock at some later date (say after warranties expire)?  If so that’s also a future upgrade I would consider.

As far as a new JS goes, I'm a lefty and the choices are extremely limited (wish I could get my MS Sidewinder to work but it's a game port), plus, my choice was budget related for now.

As to the HD’s, I prefer a dual HD set-up; one for applications and one for data storage (did I mention I have a very clean configuration on my current machine?)

Here's the list (everything from Newegg for now, I haven't cross-shopped for price yet):

COOLER MASTER CAVALIER 3 CAV-T03-UK Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Model #: CAV-T03-UK
Item #: N82E16811119074
$59.99  
   
EVGA 132-CK-NF78-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 780i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Model #: 132-CK-NF78-A1
Item #: N82E16813188024
$249.99  
   
EVGA 512-P3-N802-AR GeForce 8800GT Superclocked 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Model #: 512-P3-N802-AR
Item #: N82E16814130319
$259.99  
   
PC Power & Cooling Silencer 610 EPS12V EPS12V 610W Continuous @ 40°C Power Supply - Retail
Model #: Silencer 610 EPS12V
Item #: N82E16817703005
$119.99  
   
Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E6750 - Retail
Model #: BX80557E6750
Item #: N82E16819115029
$189.99  
   
G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ - Retail
Model #: F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ
Item #: N82E16820231098
$44.99  
   
SONY Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive Windows 98SE/ ME/ 2000/ XP - OEM
Model #: MPF920 Black
Item #: N82E16821103116
$7.99  
   
2x Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: ST3250410AS
Item #: N82E16822148262
$69.99 ea.     $139.98  
   
Microsoft ZG6-00006 Black PS/2 Wired Standard Keyboard 500 - Retail
Model #: ZG6-00006
Item #: N82E16823109164
$11.99  
   
Saitek ST290 Joystick - Retail
Model #: ST290
Item #: N82E16826102506
$21.99  
   
Microsoft D66-00069 Black 3 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB + PS/2 Wired Optical Mouse - Retail
Model #: D66-00069
Item #: N82E16826105164
$11.99  
   
ASUS Black SATA DVD-ROM Drive Model DVD-E616A3T - Retail
Model #: DVD-E616A3T
Item #: N82E16827135143
$20.99  
   
ASUS 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model DRW-2014L1T - Retail
Model #: DRW-2014L1T
Item #: N82E16827135156
$35.99  
   
Microsoft Windows Vista 32-Bit Home Premium for System Builders Single Pack DVD - OEM
Model #: 66I-00715
Item #: N82E16832116202
$109.99  
   
ALTEC LANSING VS4121BLK 31 Watts 2.1 Speaker - Retail
Model #: VS4121BLK
Item #: N82E16836113017
$79.99
 
Subtotal: $1,365.84

Comments?

[Fulmar]

- HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend not going with Vista unless you absolutely want it for some strange reason.  Stick with Windows XP.

- Why the 3.5 floppy drive?  Unless you are planning on needing it to setup RAID during the install of Windows XP (Vista you do not need a floppy I believe), ditch it.  They are ancient, break often and are mid 1985 technolgy.  If you still use floppy disks to store data today....well

- Everything looks really solid parts wise.  I'm an Asus fan, you picked a good processor, good case and good PSU, good video card, good ram.

- Where to save money?  Well maybe the motherboard.  The Asus 780 SLI is a good solid board, but it is a hefty $250.  Unless you plan on going SLI, which really isnt worth its benefits for the cost.  From the reviews I've read, the sub $150 Asus boards are kinda of crappy.  I'd check out some other brands that offer solid boards in the $100-$150 range.  I'd recommend a P35 chipset.

If you go with a cheaper board, you could spend that extra $100-$150 on other parts.  Faster processor?  2 more Gb of ram (32bit OS's only recognize 3.5gb).  Maybe get a WD raptor drive (these are really nice)?

I'm kind of an audiophile and would not recommend using onboard sound.  Hell I think you SB Value would be better off than a lot of onboard sound chipsets out there.  $80-$100 or so gets you a SB X-fi gamer or music.  Plus you won't have to worry about the onboard chipset stealing CPU performance.

[Fulmar]

And btw, I am honestly amazed you can pull off that kind of FPS with that computer you are currently using.

Whatever parts you do decide on, once you get it built...it will be like turning in that Gremlin for BMW 7 series.

[Ghosth]

I have to agree with fulmar. 3.5 " floppys are obsolete unless you must have one to setup raid. Can't think of anything else you'd need one for.


I've tried several different versions of onboard sound over the years.
None of them were ever as good as any budget PCI board by sound blaster.

Normally either you have mic problems, or in game sound problems.
Not to mention they use a LOT more cpu cycles, robbing you of frames just when you pull the trigger and need it smoothest.

[BaldEagl]

OK, I pulled the floppy drive, switched to Win XP Home and added:

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail
Model #: 70SB073A00000
Item #: N82E16829102006
$80.99

I also pulled 1 of the HD's for now to accomodate the sound card from a budget perspective.  Overall I've slightly lowered the total price (less than $20).

I'm kind of set on the mobo because of the 2x PCI x16 2.0 slots (GPU interface is also 2.0), and the future ability to SLI.  My thought was that, if I'm building for the future, the mobo and CPU were core pieces in that strategy.  Is this thinking flawed?

Anything else?

BTW, I'd still like to know if I'll be able to OC at some future point.  I'm guessing the answer is yes.

Thanks for the help so far (and to those who helped in the other thread regarding memory).

[wabbit]

I would say check the price on Windows XP Pro, to see how close it is to the home version. The pro version is a bit more robust, in my opinion.

I would suspect that by the time you seriously consider SLI, there would be better mtbs out there, so I'd say the planning for SLI for this board probably wouldn't get you much.

Now I'm not an audiophile, hell waaay too many guns and rock bands put an end to that... I'd suggest you hold off on buying a sound card and see how the on-board audio works first. On-board sound seems to work for me just fine and it will save you bucks, that you could use elsewhere. If  you try it and decide it isn't doing a good job, then get the sound card.

So far the only complaint, I've heard from my squad-mates is that I talk to loud on the mike, (of course you'll have to ask them to be certain... ). And that's just a mike adjustment. On-board audio has been fine for me.

Now I've been an Asus fan for years myself and have had very good results for both myself and my clients using the 'under $200.00 boards. I'm currently running an Asus dual Xeon mtb and it's been great and even runs Vista, (not that I'd want to just yet). I'm not familiar with the mtb you selected though, so I don't know how it compares. I would take a hard look at the Asus P5 series of boards. The P5E series has received some nice reviews, although I'd probably go with the 35 chipset instead of the 38chipset.
 
Check for some reviews of the 35 chipset mtbs and see how your mtb compares against the Asus boards before you finalize your choice.  Your board uses a different chipset so you'll have to do a rough compare, but it should help.

I am not a fan of Raid at all. It protects you against hardware failures, but not software failures, ie; windows corruption, etc, etc. And you're more likely to have a windows corruption then a hard drive failure. Less then 4 weeks ago I had to recover files from a customer's system that was running RAID. Windows got corrupted and the RAID system mirrored the corruption to the second RAID drive, so there was no recovery possible. I was forced to use file recovery software to recover his data.

I then set him up with a non-raid system, and used Acronis True Image to create a full image backup of the system and data. This protects against both hard drive and windows corruption and IMHO, is better than using RAID.

I'm also not much of an overclocking fan. I've never felt the need to stress any of my systems out to the limit just to squeese a little more out of the cpu. Never felt it was worth the cost for what ya got back, but that's something you'll have to decide for yourself.

Other then that I think you'll be wery wery happy with your choices.


Wabbit

[Fulmar]

That true wabbit about RAID 1 and 5.  I use RAID 0 for the speed because I do not own any raptors.  It doubles my odds of a crash if one of the HD's goes bad, but I'm meticulous with my back ups so the risks are really nullified for me.

[TequilaChaser]

depending on what your "job requirements" are, those floppy 3.5 drives are sometimes needed.

I have 3 different software programs that have encrypted floppy disc that writes from the floppy to the hard drive, and vice versa if you need to remove the software to install on another HD.

no floppy, no use of software, no way to register, insert license ( only have 3 keys on disk ), no way to install or unstall or upgrade when needed.....

then you can make multiple kinds of boot disk, start up disk, batch files ( like for CH product users with analog equipment ) etc....

just saying.

the below mitsumi floppy/card reader is very nice option:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16821104104

[BaldEagl]

$50 more for XP Pro ($140 vs $90).  Is it worth it?

[Skuzzy]

XP Pro will be supported from Microsoft until 2014.  All other versions of XP will lose official support either this year or next year.  I cannot remember.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Losing support doesn't mean it will stop working.. always good to keep in mind.

[Krusty]

A floppy drive has its uses. Including MEMtest and certain drivers.

I suggest getting an 8-in-1 reader that's also built into the floppy. Mine cost $11 on newegg and I use the card readers more than the floppy (which justifies its presence)

EDIT: TC just posted exactly what I use! LOL!

There's a couple of common sense tips I could give you on that rig listed.

Pare back where you can. For example, your motherboard is one of the most expensive motherboards I've EVER seen. $250!??! HOLY CRAP! Dude, if you can find something that accepts your other hardware (SATA, PCIe 2.0, etc) go find a lesser-priced board. Seriously. If you can find a board for $125 even, maybe $150, that's a hefty chunk of change shaved off, right there!

You have 2x 250GB drives. These are SATA 3.0. They're already much faster than IDE. IMO the only reason you'd get more than one is for a RAID, and doing a RAID you really need between 3 and 5 drives. No reason to get 2. I kinda doubt most folks have 500 GBs of stuff on their hard drives. Not even most video editors.  Hey, if you really need it, sure. But if you currently only use 50GB on your HD NOW, why get 500GBs? You can buy more drives later, as needed.

You have a DVD-ROM and a DVD-R+/-. Might be a simple question, but "can't you just use the DVD-R as a DVD-ROM?" Won't save much, but every bit counts.

You've got an $80 set of 2.1 speakers. That's awfully hefty for a simple 2.1. I've seen larger systems for less. My Boston Digital Ba735 cost about $30 when I got them. They're older, sure, but they still sound fairly good. I like listening to music on my PC more than my headphones because of the quality difference. You can really shave off half that price if you *only* want 2.1 speakers. My speakers are 8 years old and still going strong, so don't think cheap = bad.

You can get by with the onboard sound just fine. I did. I reinstalled my sound card to get the extra gameport (one for my stick, one for my pedals!), and for the firewire port, but otherwise I'd just be using onboard. I had no problems with it.


You can really trim back the price in a lot of areas. For example: I won't say not to get that video card, because you really want a good video card, by hypothetically you could get one just about as good for $180, that saves $70 right there! Mind you some folks like their brand so I'll leave video choice up to you, but look over everything and think about how much it costs and whether its luxury or necessity.

[wabbit]

Personally, I would spend the extra for Windows XP Pro.

Do a search for the differences between the two and you should find a lot of info on that to help you make your decision.


Wabbit

[BaldEagl]

I'm not setting up RAID.  As I stated earlier, the reason that I've used 2 HD's in the past is to use one for applications and the other for data storage.  Since I'm loading/unloading/modifying files on the storage drive all the time, this allows me to run longer before I have to defrag on the application drive.  I'm currently using ~67gigs almost evenly split between the drives although some of that will not transfer over to the new machine.  It seemed the value was decent with the drives I selected and I was steering toward a two-drive set up but I'll revisit (also see my comment in the next paragraph).

Having spent over 20 years in the music industry, I have to admit to being a bit of an audiophile, thus the speaker purchase.  I've got a set of Altecs on my current machine (that I got when I bought it) and I just love them.  I was looking for something with a full 20-20K frequency range, a decent S/N ratio and reasonable power.  I only need 2.1's (what I have now).  I don't really have a good location for rear or side speakers and, having never had them I won't miss what I've never had  I've been looking at actually upgrading this part of the system.  Either that or downgrade considerably and use my current Altecs with the new system.  Either way I do not want to be dissapointed with audio performance.  I also use a wireless transmitter/reciever to pump audio to my home stereo at the other end of the house (the random play feature on a PC is too nice... and I can see a lot more of my 2000+ CD's migrating to my computer).  Is this enough reason to keep the sound card?

I'll definately re-visit the mobo given everyone's responses and see what I can find.

I've already added the multi-drive that TC and Krusty suggested (great idea) and I'll consider eliminating the second DVD-ROM drive (at least for now).

Thanks for all the input so far.

[RTR]

How old is the monitor you are planning to re-use? Going from an old machine with windows 98 to a new machine running XP, your old monitor may not be workable.

cheers,
RTR