Author Topic: Oh my god the pony is awful!  (Read 8663 times)

Offline Gowan

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Oh my god the pony is awful!
« Reply #75 on: February 21, 2008, 11:53:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by RoGenT
And hopefully I'll be nearly as good as AKDG and Urachin someday; long road on the one though





:huh  im sorry, but you are crazy my pig


you have 700+ kills and 84 deaths in the pony... i think you are good enough...

im only 1k/d in my best plane(ki-84).... (then again, i fight to the finish)

Offline Bruv119

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Oh my god the pony is awful!
« Reply #76 on: February 22, 2008, 04:33:11 AM »
Rogent has been putting in alot of effort with his 51 mixing it up in all situations.   I have had to raise my game to beat him on a number of occasions but thats with better planes down low.

No doubt that he will over time become even better in it.
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Offline lyric1

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« Reply #77 on: February 22, 2008, 07:53:28 AM »
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Who's Challenge?  


ack-ack
 Well I guess my post of not being noticed is correct.

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #78 on: February 22, 2008, 01:06:29 PM »
then came back and picked me while I was engaged with 2-3 other enemy's.
====
I feel your pain bro.

Heres my take....not that it matters.

Every time another player ends a sortie of mine it is strictly my fault.  I never get bested, I never get cheated, I never simply lose to a better player with more experience or better equipment.  All that happens is I screw up and I get busted.  

If I play the game the way I truly want to this is what generally happens: I spend a few hours online and end maybe  eight-ten sorties of other people without anyone ending my sortie.  That is when I log the most satisfied.

Does it happen very often?  No, I usually screw up and well........you know.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline SgtPappy

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Oh my god the pony is awful!
« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2008, 08:03:45 PM »
Widewing, I looked at your charts and decided to make some research of my own.

Apparently, according to AFDU trials (and your chart), the P-51B/C (Mustang III) turns not only better than the Tempest II, but the Tempest V as well (flaps up on both planes). In our game, we know that the Tempest V turns a good amount tighter than the P-51B or D at any speed when both planes have flaps up.

Is our P-51, therefore, mis-modeled?
I am a Spitdweeb

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Offline Lumpy

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« Reply #80 on: February 23, 2008, 08:31:48 PM »
... or the Tempest. Or both. ;)
“I’m an angel. I kill first borns while their mommas watch. I turn cities into salt. I even – when I feel like it – rip the souls from little girls and now until kingdom come the only thing you can count on, in your existence, is never ever understanding why.”

-Archangel Gabriel, The P

Offline Widewing

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Oh my god the pony is awful!
« Reply #81 on: February 24, 2008, 01:52:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SgtPappy
Widewing, I looked at your charts and decided to make some research of my own.

Apparently, according to AFDU trials (and your chart), the P-51B/C (Mustang III) turns not only better than the Tempest II, but the Tempest V as well (flaps up on both planes). In our game, we know that the Tempest V turns a good amount tighter than the P-51B or D at any speed when both planes have flaps up.

Is our P-51, therefore, mis-modeled?


I've been bellyaching about the P-51's turn radius for a long time.

Also, consider that the Tempest weighs about 12,500 lb. This gives it a power loading virtually identical with the P-51D. Yet, the P-51 has a much lower drag coefficient. Thus, one would think that the P-51 should accelerate faster, especially as speed (and drag) increase. Wing loading is similar, especially if the P-51 is configured for normal fuel, rather than max range.

AFDU testing shows the P-51 accelerating faster and turning smaller circles. I think the P-51 accelerates too slowly and the large Tempest accelerates too fast (in game).

I'm hoping that Pyro and co. look at the P-51 FM when time permits.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

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Oh my god the pony is awful!
« Reply #82 on: February 24, 2008, 02:29:19 AM »
Why wont HTC listen to WideWing? :(
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Offline Neil Stirling

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Offline SgtPappy

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« Reply #84 on: February 24, 2008, 12:01:17 PM »
Let's hope the model is looked at soon because I'm falling in love with the P-51B.

Also, thanks for the report, Neil. That +25 lb. boost is likely the cause of the RAF's introduction of the new 150 grade octane they were installing in their Spitfire, Mustang and Tempest fighters during the later half 1944.
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Offline MiloMorai

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Oh my god the pony is awful!
« Reply #85 on: February 24, 2008, 01:09:58 PM »
Would the larger prop on the Tempest not help with acceleration over the 'tooth pick' (relative) on the P-51?

Offline SgtPappy

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« Reply #86 on: February 24, 2008, 01:35:25 PM »
That's what I was initially thinking as well since the Tempest's prop is actually larger than that of the F4U's prop (14' 0" vs. 13' 4" for the F4U-1's +, 13' 2" for the F4U-4).

But perhaps there's some kind of equation there somewhere. I mean the P-51's prop blade is far from a toothpick, even compared to the Tempest's prop. Judging by the relative tiny size of the actual Mustang when compared to the gigantic Tempest, the prop might be more efficient for the P-51 than the Tempest's prop is for the huge Tempest.

Looking at the official tests, it seems as though the P-51 somehow creates more thrust or something as it turns better than the Tempest despite the Mustang's slightly heavier wingloading (P-51B weight @ 25% fuel, full ammo, clean/wing area: 8,604 lbs./235 sq.ft. = 36.6 lbs./sq.ft.   VS.  Tempest V weight @ 25% fuel, full ammo, clean/wing area: 10,525 lbs./ 302 sq.ft. = 34.9 lbs./sq.ft.).

Even through that, the Mustang turns better so the trust factor (which seems very evident in our current F4U) must be helping turn rate or turn radius somehow, though I cannot fully base my opinion on the F4U since I truly do not yet understand the equations which determine the Corsair's amazing turn rate.
I am a Spitdweeb

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Offline Widewing

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« Reply #87 on: February 24, 2008, 02:38:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MiloMorai
Would the larger prop on the Tempest not help with acceleration over the 'tooth pick' (relative) on the P-51?


When I have a little more time, I'll calculate acceleration for these two, and I'll give the Tempest an extra 5% more prop efficiency when calculating thrust. The lower the speed, the greater the available thrust.

Acceleration in feet per second, per second = Thrust - Drag/Weight/32.2

IIRC, the Tempest has a profile drag coefficient of about .0245, with the P-51D coming in at .0176 (with pylons, .0168 without)

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Lumpy

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« Reply #88 on: February 24, 2008, 10:02:03 PM »
Tempest V

Normal loaded weight: 11,400 lbs
Power: 2,180 hp
Wing area: 302 ft

Wing loading: 37.7 lbs/ft
Power loading: 5.22 lbs/hp



D Pony

Normal loaded weight: 9,200 lbs
Power: 1,695 hp
Wing area: 235 ft

Wing loading: 39.2 lbs/ft
Power loading: 5.42 lbs/hp




Seems to me the Tempest should both out turn and out accelerate the Pony. The Tempest also has a better wing profile for high angle of attack turning. The Pony's laminar flow wing profile generated much more drag at high angle of attack than a more typical WWII wing profile.
“I’m an angel. I kill first borns while their mommas watch. I turn cities into salt. I even – when I feel like it – rip the souls from little girls and now until kingdom come the only thing you can count on, in your existence, is never ever understanding why.”

-Archangel Gabriel, The P

Offline MiloMorai

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Oh my god the pony is awful!
« Reply #89 on: February 24, 2008, 10:07:48 PM »
Didn't the Tempest also have a laminar airfoil?

Lumpy:

- what was the hp of the 25lb boost Packard-Merlin?
- what was the hp of the 13lb boost Sabre?