P-47M, a perked jug.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Wingnutt
no rebel, hes right, what we REALLY need are obsolete bombers and other novelty aircraft that nobody will fly except on rare occasions or scenarios because they are utterly useless in the MA.. those should be high priority..

I mean look how many AWSOME  rides we have that every one flys all the time and enjoy so much..



like the C202, the 109E4, 190F8, P-40B, SBD, F4F-4, TBM, spitty I,

Hurricane I, A6M2,  B5N2, D3A1..

you seldom see any of those rides in the MA.. they are as rare as a rook below 20K.

but here we have the M which would be not only goof enough to hand with the best, but would be good enough to be perked.. a VIABLE MA fighter capable of hanging with the big dogs that dominate the MA.


there has been no argument against the M that holds a drop of water..

any stated argument against that has been made for its ineligibility regarding its rareness, or impact on the war, reliability, or otherwise... are moot, considering many aircraft already in the game were equally rare, had minuscule impact, or were less reliable.

I'm a rook that rarely goes above 7k.   I OFTEN fly the Spit 1, Ki-61 or P-38 in the LWA.   If you want to continue your straw man argument by spewing your drivel, we can meet in the DA.   I'll show you what a Spit 1 is capable of.  

As for your continued WHINING about the 47M, you've yet to deliver a concise reason on why we need it.   This closes NO GAP in the Jug planeset.    

Also you made the asinine comment earlier of:

Originally posted by Wingnutt
again the 262 had no real impact on the war either..

You're kidding right?    If you're serious in this statement, you should rethink your logic strategies for future "debates".    

We DO NOT need the 47M, it serves absolutely, positively, unequivocally, without question, no purpose of being added.  With the exception of being able to get a tougher plane to catch when running.

funny on how by the middle of page 2, you are WAITING for other's to "fight the fight" for you.    Then in desperation, you bring "rooks" into it.   It definitely shows your insecurities in life.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by skyctpn
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_bf_109K.html
109k lots produced 90% never left the ground intact.
Yet in the game

So you're telling us this rediculous site is "gospel to the Kürfurst"?    LMFAO, some of the info on that site is so wrong, I had to email the site admin.  

Your quote of "109k lots produced 90% never left the ground intact." is wrong.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Wingnutt
C202, the 109E4, 190F8, P-40B, SBD, F4F-4, TBM, spitty I,

Hurricane I, A6M2,  B5N2, D3A1..

all of these "fill gaps"

in the MA,... all of them are worthless..'

"Worthless" because you are inept in them?   or "worthless" because you are crying like a baby?

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by skyctpn
I provided a link to a source.. since your the master 109K pilot I would sudgest you find one that discredits mine.

No link needed, you need to read more skycptn.

More than 1,700 Kurfursts were produced from August 1944 to Surrender.    Nearly every Kurfurst saw combat.   The reason it was delayed after the prototype was NOT due to "bombings".   It was delayed because of the DB-605D engine.  

At the end of the ETO one of every four 109 in action, was a Kurfurst.  

I'll put down the gauntlet now.  Amazing what you can actually find out from a book though, ain't it?


(edit) - I actually had to pull these out of mothballs downstairs.   For a 34 year old, I've amassed a VERY significant "WWII Library" that even WW or Corky would be impressed with.    

The Messerschmitt Bf.109 - James F Craig   New York: Arco Publishing Company, 1968

German Combat Planes: A Comprehensive Survey and History of the Development of German Military Aircraft from 1914 to 1945. - Ray Wagner and Heinz Nowarra    New York: Doubleday, 1971.

[Wingnutt]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
"Worthless" because you are inept in them?   or "worthless" because you are crying like a baby?

well hot shi!t, lets look why I think they are worthless..

and by worthless I mean THEY ARE NOT USED..

stats for Wingnutt so far this tour..

53 hours of play thus far.

I have NO kills of, and have never been killed by an A6m2

I have NO kills of and have never been killed by an 190E4

I have NO kills of and have never been killed by an B25N

I have NO kills of and have never been killed by an C202

I have NO kills of and have never been killed by an D3A1

I have NO kills of and have never been killed by an Hurri MK 1

I have NO kills of and have never been killed by an SBD-5

I have NO kills of and have never been killed by an Spitfire Mk I

I have NO kills of and have never been killed by an  TBM-3

I have NO kills of and have never been killed by an P-40B

I have NO kills of and have been killed ONCE an F4F-4

I have NO kills of and have been killed ONCE an 190-F8



playing 53 hours.. almost all of it in aircraft, most of it as a fighter..  out of all those aircraft, ive logged a grand total of 2 encounters..

im sure other people have different experences, but im basing my statment on mine..

so my statment is based on my experence, not me being "inept"

*******.

[Masherbrum]

Ahh, nice circumvention of the language buffer.  

You're all bravado and not much else.    Now go play pick-up-stix.

They are used.   You hide in a horde.    Poles apart.

[moot]

This is Aces High by Hitech Creations, not 47Ms High by Wingnutt Creations.

[evenhaim]

Wingnutt i dare you to tell schatzi that the hurri is inpet in the ma, I have a squaddie who only flys the spit 1 and he does dam well in it, loads of zekes out there, i personaly use the 190f8 religously for ground attack along with another squaddie, D3a HUH- you neva heard of candy mountain Emils are great for furballs

And for tbms talk to widewing, p40b-filth

See, to each his own, and just because you have a limited view doesnt mean everyone else doesnt enjoy the current planeset.

cheers,
freez

[Wingnutt]

I dont hide in a "horde"  I usually fly solo unless squaddies are on then we fly missions with 5 to 15 planes..

thats about it..

funny thing is these planes are indeed so rare.. that you know off the top of you head, by name the people who fly them with success.


besides that,  the 47M is in a different kind of catagory, if you will..

there are the "historic necessity" (i.e. filler) aircraft the game needs for events, and era related play (ava, midwar/early war, scenario.. etc
that need to be here because they were there..


then there are.. I guess you would call them "useful" planes..  the aircraft that make up the bulk of what your average joe subscriber flies..  the 51D, LA7.. all the dweeb planes..  

the aircraft that are EFFECTIVE and can hold their own in the hands of even newer players..  sure there are people who can win in anything because they have been playing 10 years..  but thats the exception not the rule.

the M would be a plane that would be competitive on equal terms in equal hands with the "big dogs" that dominate the MA.

yea the .202 etc etc lesser rides.. yea people fly them, yea they have success..  but to be successful in those rides you need to have an extreme advantage over your opponent in either situation, or skill..  

which is why they are flown and used regularly and successfully by probably less that 5% of the user base

[Wingnutt]

and masher, yes, im saying the 262 had no impact in the war..

why?


because it didnt..

it was too late in coming, and thus had no real impact on anything..   any show/book/historian will tell you that.

in regards to its overall impact in the outcome of the war, beyond stating what and how many aircraft it shotdown..  there is nothing to be said...  it didnt turn the tide of even a single bomber raid it was involved in.. much less anything beyond that scale..

it would be one thing if there was even one single account of a bomber mission being turned back due to the intervention of 262s.. but there is none.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Wingnutt
well hot shi!t, lets look why I think they are worthless..

and by worthless I mean THEY ARE NOT USED..

stats for Wingnutt so far this tour..

53 hours of play thus far.

(...)

so my statment is based on my experence, not me being "inept"

 

You fail to take into account that your own experience can rarely give you the whole picture, as the planes one will encounter vary very much by playing style. (For example the are so few La-7's in my kill list that you could think they have fallen into disuse, while M3's & C-47 are pretty much on top of my list)

Tour 96 LW Arenas:

Total Kills by:
717    A6M2
443   109E4
466   B2N5
248   C202
117   D3A
654   Hurri Mk 1
177   SBD-5
357   Spit Mk I
574   TBM 3
220   P40B
694   F4-F
2141   190F

A total of 6808 kills. Not much when compared to overall kills, but far from being "worthless" or even "not being used"

(I still brag occasionally about my own 300 kills in Hurri I in tour 92)

[Wingnutt]

Originally posted by Lusche

A total of 6808 kills. Not much when compared to overall kills,.

see

Originally posted by Lusche

(I still brag occasionally about my own 300 kills in Hurri I in tour 92)

Hell I would too.

[Karnak]

Early this Tour I shot down a P-47N while flying a D3A1.   Before you get started, if he'd been flying a P-47M he still would have gotten shot down as he tried to turn with me.

[angelsandair]

well karnak, that was because he was a nub who cant fly a jug if it were to save his life

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by angelsandair
well karnak, that was because he was a nub who cant fly a jug if it were to save his life

You've seen first hand what a Spit1 is capable of.    Are you saying yer a "noob"?  

Bottom line is still this, we DO NOT need the 47M.