Author Topic: Utah college kids get armed (Read 1815 times)

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:00:30 PM »

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Originally posted by cav58d
Those evil cops..........

And yes...I worked closely with, and met a large portion of my University's Police Department, and have full confidence in them to do their job. I trust them a lot more than the average 18-22 year old walking around campus, who did a six hour training class, and submitted an application to the police department to carry a gun and play hero.

And are you really going to compare 1908 to 2008?

Those who would be carrying would be 21 and over and would have already gotten their license. They protect your pansy bellybutton everywhere else in the US. How is a college classroom different? Do you get anxiety over the fact that maybe 1/30 people you see on the street is packing?

The fact is, you don't. That is unless you've reached a level of liberal whiningdom never before seen.

Time and time again, it has been shown that Gun Free Zones aren't.

Those who are able to protect themselves will not be allowed.

And liberals will get their panties in a twist trying to figure out why less guns equals more crime.

cav58d · « **Reply #31 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:05:22 PM »

I'd be interested to see how many shooting there were per academic hours throughout all of the University's in the United States over the past year. Surely a lot less, than many of other spots that everyone, not just students frequent in their day to day lives.....

If the problem is so bad, and guns need to be on campus, then it should be via additional police, or security teams. With all due respect, getting a Concealed to carry permit isn't hard. Complete a couple hours of training, and go to your police station. Speaking of training....Having training on how to operate and fire a weapon is NOT the same as having training on how to operate and fire a weapon while taking fire.

So again, if it's such a problem, then hire security. Hell, I would support the University training and employing students to patrol the campus, during hours when not in class, but this is a serious business, and I hardly think going from the role of a student into clark kent in half a second is practical, or safe.

AKIron · « **Reply #32 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:08:21 PM »

The crime deterrent factor is most acute when no one knows who is armed.

Elfie · « **Reply #33 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:16:09 PM »

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Originally posted by AKIron
The crime deterrent factor is most acute when no one knows who is armed.

Exactly.

While it would be nice if no one committed crimes, or hurt anyone else, sadly, our world is not like that. People have a inherent right to protect themselves.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #34 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:21:03 PM »

The problem is, no matter how hard you communists try, police and security will never be preventative. That is short of putting an armed policeman in EVERY Golly-geeN ROOM. When you consider how large some colleges are, it's probably a conservative estimate to say that during most days there are 600 classes going on at any given time. Probably a decent amount more at certain peak times.

Again, we come across the same problem with this that we do with every socialist program ever dreamed of, ever.

Estimate that these guards make 25,000 a year and another 20,000 in benefits, and you need to pay a cool $27.0 MILLION DOLLARS.

Because even a communist can't pull $27.0 mil out of his ass, he'd try to cut it down to a single security guard per building. My campus (a big one) has near 300 buildings.

Then we're back to 13.5 million dollars. Now assuming that a shooting isn't going to happen in front of a security guard, it could take the guard anywhere from 1-6 minutes to react. Any shooter has 1-6 minutes to do whatever he pleases, because the socialists have deemed us be unable to fight back.

Anyway you cut it, you're wrong.

cav58d · « **Reply #35 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:27:37 PM »

Laser...Your really out of your mind. You remind me of a whiney little baby. Maybe you should study politics and get it out of your system. You sure like to act like you have a command over it.

You are delusional if you think someone with a concealed weapon equates to saving that day. As I said earlier. The hardest part of getting a gun permit is to submit your application to your police station within 90 days of completing the 5 or 6 hours of training. What are some other prerequisites? A clean background? geeez...thats tough.

You can teach an individual how to operate a weapon. How he reacts, in a split second, under fire, with no formal training in the scenario is completely different.

And you mentioned in an earlier post that you are protecting me? How are you doing so? Whether you are or not, thanks but no thanks.

Elfie · « **Reply #36 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:39:29 PM »

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I trust them a lot more than the average 18-22 year old walking around campus, who did a six hour training class, and submitted an application to the police department to carry a gun and play hero.

Gotta be 21 to get a CCW

AKIron · « **Reply #37 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:42:31 PM »

Cav, even these wackos that outfit themselves like rambo and go on killing sprees hope to have some measure of success before taking their own lives. They would fear getting popped before they can make their first kill if they thought every other target were possibly armed. 99.999% of the people you see every day can be trusted to safely carry a firearm. The .0001% that are wackos won't ask your permission to do so.

Elfie · « **Reply #38 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:42:58 PM »

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You are delusional if you think someone with a concealed weapon equates to saving that day.

That very thing has happened quite a few times actually.

SteveBailey · « **Reply #39 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:53:39 PM »

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Originally posted by cav58d
I In fact, I encourage it. I just don't agree with them being in an academic class room.

There is evidence of mass murder in the classroom. Is there any evidence at all that a student w/ a ccw permit committed murder or assault w/ said weapon in a class room?

What logic, exactly, led you to the conclusion that you do not think students should be allowed to CCW in class?

cav58d · « **Reply #40 on:** February 21, 2008, 10:08:33 PM »

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Originally posted by SteveBailey
There is evidence of mass murder in the classroom. Is there any evidence at all that a student w/ a ccw permit committed murder or assault w/ said weapon in a class room?

What logic, exactly, led you to the conclusion that you do not think students should be allowed to CCW in class?

It has nothing to do with a ccw holder starting a shooting....My opinion has everything to do with his or her ability to attempt to respond, and what good it would do after a shooting starts....Equally, my problem is the attention and distraction it will bring into a classroom. The weapon doesn't need to be seen to make some people feel nervous. If your response to people feeling uneasy about an un-uniformed and un-trained stranger carrying a weapon is "well you're just a pansy" then I really feel bad for you, that you are so inept to think outside of your world, and that a lot of other people are different.

My biggest problem is that it would be a big distraction to a lot of people. And it's a distraction that they shouldn't have to deal with when they are paying upward and over 100k for an education.

AKIron · « **Reply #41 on:** February 21, 2008, 10:13:37 PM »

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Originally posted by cav58d
It has nothing to do with a ccw holder starting a shooting....My opinion has everything to do with his or her ability to attempt to respond, and what good it would do after a shooting starts....Equally, my problem is the attention and distraction it will bring into a classroom. The weapon doesn't need to be seen to make some people feel nervous. If your response to people feeling uneasy about an un-uniformed and un-trained stranger carrying a weapon is "well you're just a pansy" then I really feel bad for you, that you are so inept to think outside of your world, and that a lot of other people are different.

My biggest problem is that it would be a big distraction to a lot of people. And it's a distraction that they shouldn't have to deal with when they are paying upward and over 100k for an education.

The possibilty of having your bellybutton shot off by someone having a bad week is a distraction. Knowing that 3 or 4 of your classmates can drop the bastard before he gets off more than a couple of rounds should provide a comfort factor.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 21, 2008, 10:26:40 PM »

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Originally posted by cav58d
It has nothing to do with a ccw holder starting a shooting....My opinion has everything to do with his or her ability to attempt to respond, and what good it would do after a shooting starts....Equally, my problem is the attention and distraction it will bring into a classroom. The weapon doesn't need to be seen to make some people feel nervous. If your response to people feeling uneasy about an un-uniformed and un-trained stranger carrying a weapon is "well you're just a pansy" then I really feel bad for you, that you are so inept to think outside of your world, and that a lot of other people are different.

My biggest problem is that it would be a big distraction to a lot of people. And it's a distraction that they shouldn't have to deal with when they are paying upward and over 100k for an education.

You seem to have allot of contempt for your fellow man. You know they really are not all that different from you.

You seem a bit paranoid, but I wouldn't worry about you having a gun.

Shamus · « **Reply #43 on:** February 21, 2008, 10:39:25 PM »

I often wonder why I can't carry my gun into the courthouse any longer.

shamus

Tarmac · « **Reply #44 on:** February 21, 2008, 10:48:29 PM »

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Originally posted by cav58d
My biggest problem is that it would be a big distraction to a lot of people. And it's a distraction that they shouldn't have to deal with when they are paying upward and over 100k for an education.

A guy in a trenchcoat wandering in with a shotgun is also a "big distraction to a lot of people." And even if it's not common, I'd bet a lot of students are very distracted by the thought as they sit in class. I'm glad you and the other nanny-staters have already decided for me that being a bit distracted by the mere possibility of a piece of steel in the room is worse than being completely defenseless when your crazy pal walks in.