Author Topic: B17G's Armor.  (Read 1326 times)

Offline MjTalon

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B17G's Armor.
« on: February 22, 2008, 05:04:55 PM »
Alrighty, before the "click SEARCH" starts up, i'm just making a educated and curious question here. Now, firstly, how's everyone this evening :) , good? Good. :D


Just a question, i know the B17 is the toughest bomber we have in AH at the moment, but i'm curious is to why the wings rip apart so easily when nailed with 20mms? I can understand them coming apart with 30mm shells, but just a stray 20mm will take the wing completely off.

Also, shouldn't the 20mms shells at least take out a engine on the wings? I have not seen one attacker that attacked my b17s take out a engine, they take the wings completely off. Could it be possible to beef up the wing armor just a tad? I think the bomber had weak armor on it's wings, but this is just crazy! We should at least loose a few engines  before the entire wings come clean off.

Just my thoughts though.:)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2008, 05:08:44 PM by MjTalon »

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Offline Adonai

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B17G's Armor.
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2008, 05:12:24 PM »
Believe 20 rounds of 20mm takes out a b17, 4 rounds of 30mm

not entirely sure if i remember where i got this, think it was adolf galland's book

anyone clarify?

Offline MjTalon

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B17G's Armor.
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2008, 05:13:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Adonai
Believe 20 rounds of 20mm takes out a b17, 4 rounds of 30mm

not entirely sure if i remember where i got this, think it was adolf galland's book

anyone clarify?



Hell, no 109 will linger long enough behind me to fire 20 20mm cannon rounds :D . Now about those 30mm..... darn it :furious !

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Offline Patches1

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B17 Armor
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2008, 05:43:38 PM »
I regulaly take out flights of B17s with 50 cals...

I aim for unarmored places.

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Offline Redlegs

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B17G's Armor.
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2008, 06:03:29 PM »
I thought I heard somewhere it was 5 30mm rounds would take out the wing of B17. But, I'm not sure.
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Offline FrodeMk3

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B17G's Armor.
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2008, 06:16:36 PM »
Talon, I might be wrong on this (Widewing, correct me if I am, please) But the B-17 series, even through the G's, did not have external armor, per se.

Their toughness was through their design, and whatever the duralumin skin could offer. Because they were fairly large aircraft, they could withstand quite a bit of damage. But, in after-action photos, it would show.

Look at some here:http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/contents.htm

Offline Rollins

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B17G's Armor.
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2008, 06:58:15 PM »
Those are some amazing photos, thank you for posting the link Frode.
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Offline Urchin

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B17G's Armor.
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2008, 08:00:40 PM »
The B-17 didn't have "armor" per se.  Its armor was empty space.

Offline Bodhi

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B17G's Armor.
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2008, 10:15:37 PM »
The B-17 has very limited amounts of armour.  Most of that was armoured glass to make the gunners and pilots feel a bit better looking through armored glass.  The only other parts that had any real "armour" were the fuel tanks, but that was more the quality of the fabrics and gels used to seal them.  Some of the B-17's had aluminum shells over their oil tanks and some of the inboard fuel tanks as well.  This was more designed for splinter protection that anything else.  

The thing to keep in mind is that the B-17 fuselage was made up of aluminum sheet over thin stamped ribs, stringers, and longerons.  The only real strength of the fuselage is in the bomb bay where a sort of "box" is made up of "square aluminum tube" that provides the main area of strength and support in the aircraft.  Urchin mentions that "empty space" was like the armour on a 17 and he is very correct.  The B-17 is an unpressurized aircraft and that helps in preventing the blow out associated with pressurization.  The amount of space and redundancy in design allows for an amazing capacity to literally absorb massive amounts of damage.  But, the B-17 is also fragile when it comes to it's control system, which is comprised of woven cables.  

Anyways, sorry for the diatribe, I spent a lot of time rebuilding one years back and became very intimate with it's construction.
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Offline Wolfskin

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B17G's Armor.
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2008, 11:49:37 PM »
Quote
I spent a lot of time rebuilding one years back and became very intimate with it's construction. [/B]


YOU DID WHAT? :O

wow, tell us more. I want to know EVERYTHING! Consider writing a book, mate. I'm sure alot of aviation geeks would go for "Rebuilding the B-17. A personal love affair with the buff" :aok

Offline ColKLink

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B17G's Armor.
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2008, 06:28:57 AM »
Those photos prove that,.... to go up in one of these, more than once your kahoones are far too big to walk normally.
Live each day like it's your last, and one day, you will be right.---- rush 2112,--->" and the sheep shall inherit the earth"......

Offline lyric1

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B17G's Armor.
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2008, 07:04:30 AM »
From http://www.stormbirds.com a picture of a hole in a b17 wing from 1 262 30mm round.

Offline IronDog

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B17G's Armor.
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2008, 09:28:03 AM »
After I got done with a walk thru of the Confederate Air Force B17,Sentimental Journey,all I could say was wow!There was no protection!I think the thing that amazed me most,was the ball turret.Just imagine being in that position for many hours.The other thing that struck me was the courage of those men.Mission after mission,and watching other bombers go down.Knowing that it could be their turn next.Yet they continued on.
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Offline Roundeye

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B17G's Armor.
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2008, 09:52:02 AM »
Lets see.....you can fly 3 forts at once and train up to 18 50cal MGs on one little fighter and you want to beef up the fort's armor so its even harder to shoot down?

:huh
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Offline ImMoreBetter

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B17G's Armor.
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2008, 09:53:49 AM »


That's pretty much about it for crew protection.