Dornier Do-217

[VooWho]

This is just a request for future developement of the Luftwaffe bomber force. As of right now I'd rather see the He-111 but later we will need a heavy bomber for the axis forces. The version which would make most since to us would be the Do-217E-4. This could be used for mid, late war AvA action although it was sent off front line duty in 44 I think.

The Dornier Do-217 was built to replace the Do-17 and was the Luftwaffe's largest bomber for almost 2 years until the He-117 was able to operate safely. Currently we have the Ju-88A-4 which is some what faster than most bombers in AH and carriers a pretty good bomb load. The 88 has a max bomb load of 3600kg internal and external which is 7,935Ibs but the 217E-4 carriers a max bomb load of 4000kg (8818Ibs) which of course is alot more than the 88 and has a max speed of 320mph compare to the 88's max. speed of 280mph. Here I'll post the specs between the two.

(specs from book, Encyclopedia of Aircraft)
Junkers Ju-88A-4

Crew:4
Powerplant: two 1000kW (1340hp) Junkers Jumo 211J inverted V-12 engines.
Performance: max speed 450km/h (280mph); range 2730km (1696 miles); service ceiling 8200m (26,900ft)
Weight: 14,000kg (30,895Ibs) loaded
Armament: up to seven 7.92mm (0.31in) MG15 or MG81 machine guns; maximum internal and external bomb load of 3600kg (7,935Ibs)

Dornier Do-217E
Crew:4
Powerplant: two 1179kW (1580hp) BMW 801ML 14-cylinder radial engines
Performance: max speed 515km/h (320mph); range 2800km (1740miles); service ceiling 9,000m (29,530ft)
Weight: 16,465kg (36,299Ibs) loaded
Armament one 15mm (0.59in) cannon; two 13mm (0.51in) and three 7.62mm (0.31in) machine guns; bomb load of 4000kg (8,818Ib); two Hs 293 or Fritz-X anti-ship missiles.

Although they both might seem alike in speed and bomb load the 217 is 40mph faster than the 88 which for any plane can make a big difference and carriers 883Ib more of bombs than the 88. The 217 also seems IMO to have a better defense armament than the 88. If you want to know why I compared the two bombers together is because 1) the Ju-88 are the only Luftwaffe bomber in the game 2) The majority seem to compare other German/axis bombers to the Ju-88. IMO the Do-217 fills up an important gap in Luftwaffe heavy bomber areas for EW,MW,LW arenas.

[Lusche]

YES!

YES!

YES!

A more survivable Luftwaffle bomber. Could be used in EW as well as LW arenas, and for a lot of special events.

[Krusty]

Definitely



But I still love the 188, too.

[Easyscor]

Drool.

[Karnak]

Ju188A-2 with the 20mm cannon in a dorsal turret.

Prettier, faster and tougher.

[VooWho]

Originally posted by Karnak
Ju188A-2 with the 20mm cannon in a dorsal turret.

Prettier, faster and tougher.

Yea but is the Ju188 classified as a heavy bomber not b/c of defensive armament but b/c of amount of bombs it could carry? Isn't the Ju188 more of a medium bomber? I'm talking about having the Do-217 as an Axis heavy bomber. The 217 carried 8818Ibs of bomb while the Ju188 if I can recall carried about 6600Ibs? But I would love to see the 188.

Really the luftwaffe bombers we need for AH is

Do-17Z
Do-217E
He-111H
Ju-88A-4
Ju-188A-2

I think that would feel in the whole gap and make way for Japanese bombers.

[Krusty]

I don't think the 217 classifies as a "heavy" either, FYI. Think of it this way, it was the size and use of the bomber that classified its "heavy" "medium" or "light" status.

There are some 2-engine RAF bombers that carried 11k in ord. I'm still not sure if they're considered medium or heavy, though.

There's no line in the ord levels that says "this is heavy, that's medium"

Still, it would be more capable for late war setups. Not as cool as the 188, but still capable

The axis really didn't HAVE any heavy bombers. It was not in their mentality nor in there immediate goals to have these. Same goes for the Soviets. They were far more concerned with the tactical battlefield, if that's the right term? I mean assisting ground troops in coordinated attacks, becoming a cohesive fighting force. The RAF and the USAAF didn't have armies on the ground in Europe to assist, so they took a totally different mentality.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Krusty

Still, it would be more capable for late war setups. Not as cool as the 188, but still capable  

Not only in LW. First unit was starting to equip in late 40, in 1941 the 217E was fully operational.
Perked bomber for EW, perfect buff for MW, still very capable & survivable in LW.

[Karnak]

VooHoo,

Of the three heavy bombers in AH, one of them, the B-17G, carries 6,000lbs, less than the Ju88A-4, Ju188 or Do217 all of which are medium bombers.

[skyctpn]

Already been requested. Please use a search button every so often.

[angelsandair]

Originally posted by VooWho
This is just a request for future developement of the Luftwaffe bomber force. As of right now I'd rather see the He-111 but later we will need a heavy bomber for the axis forces. The version which would make most since to us would be the Do-217E-4. This could be used for mid, late war AvA action although it was sent off front line duty in 44 I think.

The Dornier Do-217 was built to replace the Do-17 and was the Luftwaffe's largest bomber for almost 2 years until the He-117 was able to operate safely. Currently we have the Ju-88A-4 which is some what faster than most bombers in AH and carriers a pretty good bomb load. The 88 has a max bomb load of 3600kg internal and external which is 7,935Ibs but the 217E-4 carriers a max bomb load of 4000kg (8818Ibs) which of course is alot more than the 88 and has a max speed of 320mph compare to the 88's max. speed of 280mph. Here I'll post the specs between the two.

(specs from book, Encyclopedia of Aircraft)
Junkers Ju-88A-4

Crew:4
Powerplant: two 1000kW (1340hp) Junkers Jumo 211J inverted V-12 engines.
Performance: max speed 450km/h (280mph); range 2730km (1696 miles); service ceiling 8200m (26,900ft)
Weight: 14,000kg (30,895Ibs) loaded
Armament: up to seven 7.92mm (0.31in) MG15 or MG81 machine guns; maximum internal and external bomb load of 3600kg (7,935Ibs)

Dornier Do-217E
Crew:4
Powerplant: two 1179kW (1580hp) BMW 801ML 14-cylinder radial engines
Performance: max speed 515km/h (320mph); range 2800km (1740miles); service ceiling 9,000m (29,530ft)
Weight: 16,465kg (36,299Ibs) loaded
Armament one 15mm (0.59in) cannon; two 13mm (0.51in) and three 7.62mm (0.31in) machine guns; bomb load of 4000kg (8,818Ib); two Hs 293 or Fritz-X anti-ship missiles.

Although they both might seem alike in speed and bomb load the 217 is 40mph faster than the 88 which for any plane can make a big difference and carriers 883Ib more of bombs than the 88. The 217 also seems IMO to have a better defense armament than the 88. If you want to know why I compared the two bombers together is because 1) the Ju-88 are the only Luftwaffe bomber in the game 2) The majority seem to compare other German/axis bombers to the Ju-88. IMO the Do-217 fills up an important gap in Luftwaffe heavy bomber areas for EW,MW,LW arenas.

Great post, great explanation, I agree that we need the He-111 first, but having this would be as good. Doesnt bother me 1 bit.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by angelsandair
Great post, great explanation, I agree that we need the He-111 first

No we don't, because we already have one vulnerable EW bomber.
Apart from a BoB scenario in SEA, there will be not much use for a even slower & more vulnerable plane in the MA's. It's not that I don't want to see it, it's an epitome of early Luftwaffe successeds. But a Do 217 (or a Ju 188 or even a He 177) would indeed fill a gaping gap in the German/Axis planeset with a vast numbers of possible uses in every arena.

[Bruv119]

I liked using this in FA.  It was in my opinion the best/most useful German bomber there.

Comparable to the soviet TU-2 if we get this dornier I would like to see the TU-2 added at the same time.  (Soviets don't have ANY bombers at all)  I'm still hoping it is a surprise inclusion with the update.


I wouldn't class them as "heavy" bombers I would reserve that for four engined bombers.   I would see them as medium (heavier than the mossie but not enough ord to match the big boys)

[VooWho]

Originally posted by Karnak
VooHoo,

Of the three heavy bombers in AH, one of them, the B-17G, carries 6,000lbs, less than the Ju88A-4, Ju188 or Do217 all of which are medium bombers.

lol yea thats what I was saying in my head. I just didn't know if there was a definition for 'Heavy Bomber'. I just woundered if the Germans would call these heavies based on number of engines and size like I guess the allies did with the lanc, 17, 24, or if the Germans went by the amount of bombs that could be carried. I'm guessing they went by size of the aircraft rather than amount of bombs carried. I guess its just based on what the manufacture calls it?

[VooWho]

Originally posted by skyctpn
Already been requested. Please use a search button every so often.

HA to bad I used the searched botton. Didn't want to bring something back from 2001 so I started a new one. Pls use the search botton yourself sir.