Author Topic: Furballing tactics  (Read 1011 times)

Offline CAP1

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Re: Re: Re: Furballing tactics
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2008, 07:24:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by angelsandair
Well, its not always with just Zekes, I'm also talking about Spit 16s and spit 8s. They can beat my little 2c on  this certain maneuver too.


well, the hurri2c, can out turn any of the spits.....but none of the zekes,,,,,,do like mace said, and keep fast if yur in hurri against the zeke.......i think at most, i'll go 1 or 2 turns with the zeke, but then i ru....errr...extend out to regain my e, and try to get him a bit too fast.....but there's guys that can actually control the zeke at very high speed too.......


try the TA too...

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Offline Bruv119

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Furballing tactics
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2008, 03:21:34 AM »
Furball tactics.

Never stay still for a second.  Take quick decisive shots.  Swap targets if a snapshot opportunity arises.   Try and kill anything that can outturn you first (if they aren't looking at you).  

Most of the time you can't really plan whats going to happen because its madness but if you keep your SA real tight and eliminate the threats you can improve your chances of being the last plane standing.  

When you do fight your way out of one, with a bag full of kills and you get her home worse for wear, nothing can beat that feeling.  Especially if you are outnumbered.
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Offline uberslet

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Re: Re: Furballing tactics
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2008, 05:53:40 AM »
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Originally posted by Mace2004

Remember, your best turn rate and smallest turn radius is at corner velocity.  
mace, you mention "Corner Velocity" but dont relly mention how it affects your plane of flight in general. I have never heard the term before, but if someone could explain it I would appreciate it.
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Offline Mace2004

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Re: Re: Re: Furballing tactics
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2008, 11:56:11 AM »
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Originally posted by uberslet
mace, you mention "Corner Velocity" but dont relly mention how it affects your plane of flight in general. I have never heard the term before, but if someone could explain it I would appreciate it.


Sure thing.  

The name comes from the fact that it's the upper left "corner" of a V-n diagram and is referred to in general aviation as "Maneuvering Speed".  V stands for Velocity and n stands for normal acceleration (i.e., G).  Here's a link to an example.

The curved line starting at 0, 0 and going up is the positive lift limit (the one going down is negative lift limit).  Lift limit being the maximum amount of lift (G) the wing can generate at the given speed WITHOUT STALLING.  So, on that example diagram you can see that particular airplane can generate about 2.7 G at 100kts.  If you pull harder, you will stall.  

If you follow the lift line up to the top (point C on the diagram) it will intersect your maximum G limit for the aircraft at about 120kts.  This is the "corner" which gives you the term "corner velocity".  That's the point at which the wing can generate more G than the airplane can physically handle without damage, in this case about 3.8 G (obviously, this example is not a fighter which can typically handle up to 6 G or more).  If you're faster than 120kts you are G limited.  While the wing can generate more G you would do it at the expense of overstressing the aircraft.

So, since turn rates relate directly to G (higher G = higher turn rates) and G is directly related to speed, corner velocity is that speed which gives you the maximum turn rate without overstress.

Also, since turn radius is directly related to speed and turn rate anything over corner velocity will be limited by G-limits and increase your turn radius.

In summary, corner velocity gives you your maximum turn rate and smallest turn radius.  Think of it as the speed at which the airplane "corners" (turns) best.  We don't have all the V-n diagrams but you can figure out an approximate corner velocity for your aircraft.  Start at about 250mph and do a high G level turn.  Pull to the edge of blackout.  As you decelerate (you will in a level turn) increase your pull to stay at the edge of blackout until the stick is as far aft as it can go (you can't pull any more).  That speed is your approximate corner velocity.  For WWII fighters the speed ranges from about 180 to 240 mph.
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Offline Guppy35

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Furballing tactics
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2008, 02:35:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bruv119
Furball tactics.

Never stay still for a second.  Take quick decisive shots.  Swap targets if a snapshot opportunity arises.   Try and kill anything that can outturn you first (if they aren't looking at you).  

Most of the time you can't really plan whats going to happen because its madness but if you keep your SA real tight and eliminate the threats you can improve your chances of being the last plane standing.  

When you do fight your way out of one, with a bag full of kills and you get her home worse for wear, nothing can beat that feeling.  Especially if you are outnumbered.



Yep.  If you can hit the guys that are the biggest threats first.  To me that's the big cannon birds or the best turning birds before they get slow.    Keeping an eye out for the guys going light speed too so you can get out of the way as they blow through for the pick and then extend to the next sector.  I die more often then I survive in a furball as the old 38G is a huge target, but there is nothing better then coming out the other side of a furball wondering how you are still flying and they're all gone :)
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