Plane set commentary

[Urchin]

I did some quick checking this morning, after a bit of flying last night.

Let me preface this by saying that last night was the most enjoyable time I've ever had in the AvA (CT, etc.).

I flew the Spit I last night, got into several 1v1s with Easyscor in an A6M2.  

This is just a commentary on the planes and stats, not anything more or less.  

It seems as though the Allied planes are at a bit of a disadvantage looking at the stats.  As of this morning when I checked -

The A6M2 was carrying a K/D of 1.5, with its K/D against the Spit at 1.79, vs the P-40 1.44, and vs the Hurricane 1.2.

The 109 was carrying a K/D of 1.49, with a K/D of 1.7 against the Spit, 1.68 against the P-40, and 1.07 against the Hurricane.

The 110 is doing the worst, with a K/D of only 1.28.  1.31 against the P-40, 1.27 against the Spit, and 1.25 against the Hurricane.  

The Hurricane has the best K/D for the allies at .86, followed by the P-40 at .67, and the Spit at .65.  

Perhaps it would be a good idea after all to have the F4F included in the planeset.

What I find really interesting is how awful the Spit seems to be doing.  I came out the worst in most of the fights I had with Easyscor, the Spit just didn't seem like it could keep up at all with the zeke.  I think the only kills I got on him were from him losing control and augering.  I stalled out a couple times and did some odd floating leaf stall into the ground - the Spitfire certainly does not seem to be a very forgiving airplane (which is odd, considering how docile all of the rest are, bar the Spit 14).  

Perhaps I will try the Hurricane out tonight, I know from flying the two in the DA furball area that the Hurricane is much more agile (in my opinion, anyway).

[KONG1]

There is a glaring hole in your analysis that negates your conclusion. You detail "plane" stats. Well those aren't plane stats those are players-in-planes stats. You left out the pile-lots in your considerations.

Edit: You were using the wrong tool against the zeke. The zeke2-hurri1 is a great match, and the 109e-spit1 is a great match.

[Urchin]

Ah, so your presumption is that the axis pilots are, on average, much better than the allied pilots?

[captain1ma]

in a word-- yes

[republic]

The axis are used to having a plane set disadvantage.

[toonces3]

Those axis guys have been flying around alot together, and lets face it the Truekill, N72, Storch, Kong1,Tbarone killing squad is hard to beat.  I'm not sure who we have on Allies to counter that bunch- I'm certainly no help.

With respect to the planeset, though, I have to say that I feel the hurri 1 is really a decent plane against what the Axis are fielding.  Provided the enemy doesn't run away, the hurri can pwn against the 109 and 110.  And, truthfully, I didn't see much running when I was on.

I don't know if the F4F would unbalance the setup, but I think the Allies are well-served with the planes we currently have.  I was surprised at how docile and lethal the hurri is- I don't know if I've ever flown the hurri 1 until the last few days.

Just my opinions.  I think Kong might be right that pilot skill is some factor in those stats.  Most of those JG guys know the 109 inside and out- alot of us Allies (or me at least) are relative newcomers to the hurri and P-40.

[Easyscor]

Hi Urchin, those were fun fights, thanks. My tally has you beating my at least 5 to 3 however.

In the Spit v Zeke matchup, especially in the "AvA War", the Spit controls the fight. He can extend and leave the Zeke in the dust at any time. It's only when you choose to stay and fight, as you did last night, or while taking or defending at a base, do things get out of hand for the spit driver because he stays around and fights the Zekes fight.

[Urchin]

Well, in my opinion, the Hurricane is clearly the strongest plane the Allies have.  This is further evident in that it has the highest K/D by a relatively wide margin ... and even the experten in the 109 are being fought to a draw by the incompetent allied pilots in the Hurricane.  

The fact that the 110 runs around a 1.25-1.3 K/D against all types seems to be clear evidence that most of the folks that fly it aren't turnfighting - if they were the K/D would skyrocket against the P-40 and plummet against the other two.  

Personally speaking, I'd say that the Axis side has a much superior planeset.

Oh and Easy - my score says 3 kills vs 4 deaths to A6M2.

[KONG1]

Originally posted by Urchin
Ah, so your presumption is that the axis pilots are, on average, much better than the allied pilots?

I made no presumption or assumption I merely pointed out that you did not factor in player skill.

[Urchin]

That is because player skill is assumed to be a nonfactor.

Rather, it is assumed that players on both sides will have a population of roughly equal pilots, normally distributed.

[Krusty]

You can't use kill stats to equate capabilities of planes. A few key other folks have been trying the same tactic to get planes unperked....

It doesn't tell you the capabilities of the plane itself.

Let me preface by saying I don't think the axis are better pilots per se. They just cluster up (when I've been in there) better, and tag team (good or bad, that's the term I use) better.

So regardless of the skill of a A6M pilot or a 109 pilot, 2 P-40B pilots working together in close coordination will kill him. The 109E is generally a better plane than the P-40B, and few will argue this. However the 109 will be dead. Why? Maybe the P-40Bs had alt, or lots of speed, or a better position, or perhaps the 109 was still pulling its gear up, or maybe the pilot got jumped while trying to figure out where the fight is on the map.

Kill stats are nice, but they don't tell you squat about the plane in question.




P.S. The negative G cutoff creates that fluttering leaf stall. It's a hole in the FM basically. Somebody at HTC admitted it's because the FM doesn't know what to do -- not really a bug, just an "issue" that's been around for a long time. Don't cut out your carburetor at the top of a loop and you'll be fine!

P.P.S. The 110c is IMO the best plane of the axis set. It is nimble enough that with any other planes around (if it's not the ONLY target) it can bring its firepower to bear and get lots of kills. The P-40B is definitely a strong player for the allies, due to speed and dive characteristics (try diving in the hurr/spit!), and because of the 50cal nose guns.

[KONG1]

Originally posted by Urchin
That is because player skill is assumed to be a nonfactor.

Rather, it is assumed that players on both sides will have a population of roughly equal pilots, normally distributed.

You made a flawed assumption. The population of the AvA is too small to produce a equally distributed random sample. That would be a stretch even if team were decided by coin flip which it is not. So back to my original assertion: your statistical analysis is inherently flawed because it discounts a very important factor.

[stodd]

spit1-----d3a is a good matchup
usually whenever some one1 sees a d3a they think easy kill and make stupid mistakes.

[Urchin]

Originally posted by KONG1
You made a flawed assumption. The population of the AvA is too small to produce a equally distributed random sample. That would be a stretch even if team were decided by coin flip which it is not. So back to my original assertion: your statistical analysis is inherently flawed because it discounts a very important factor.

It looks to me as if my assumption is that the K/D of a random allied pilot = K/D of a random axis pilot, and yours is K/d of a random allied pilot < K/D of a random axis pilot.  

Is that a correct statement?

EDIT:  Actually... what I really mean to say is that the true means would be equal, and you say that axis K/D is higher.  Of course, the only way to test such an assumption would be to draw a sample of pilots and test the assumptions.

[Krusty]

You assume pilot skill is the only outside factor, as well.

Aside from that major oversight, there's no way to show any 2 pilots even on the same team are "about equal" let alone that one session doesn't randomly have all the "about equal" pilots all on the same team.

It's like saying "Assuming 2 birds are the same" -- well there are so many birds out there that there MAY be similar birds but chances are they're not.

You preclude all other possibilities when you put it that way.