Author Topic: Fw-190 A8  (Read 816 times)

Offline Yossarian

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Fw-190 A8
« on: March 06, 2008, 03:50:19 PM »
Hi, I've been using the Fw-190 A8 recently (mostly in offline), but I've noticed that it seems really front-heavy.  Now, I'm not a great pilot/gunner IMO, and I think that if I've noticed something such as this, it must be really quite severe.

Anyway, if anyone knows about how I could counteract this front-heaviness, or just has any general tips about the A8, I'd love to hear them.

<S>

Yossarian
Afk for a year or so.  The name of a gun turret in game.  Falanx, huh? :banana:
Apparently I'm in the 20th FG 'Loco Busters', or so the legend goes.
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Fw-190 A8
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2008, 05:01:46 PM »
The 190's have literally NO advantages over any other ac in the game other than roll rate and guns (and speed for the Dora).  It requires very strong SA, good knowledge of ACM's and strong E management skills to stay alive.  You can't just yank and bank in an A8.  Many ACM's are not even feasable given energy states.

Pick your 190 to suit your mission:

190A-5 - Best turner of the group, lightest and most nimble and packs a punch if you load out all 4 cannons.

190A-8 - Heaviest of the group but packs the biggest punch with 2x30mm, 2x20mm cannons and 2x13 (?) mm machine guns.  Great for buff hunting and a decent fighter.

190D-9 - Fastest of the group.  Among the fastest in the arena.  Purely a B'n'Zer.  Lightest gun package with only 2x20mm cannons plus machine guns but they are plenty for taking out fighters.

190F-8 - Best ground attack fighter in the group.  Performance is similar to the A-8 so it makes a decent fighter as well.

Ta-152H - Slowest of the group at low to mid alts but among the fastest in the arenas over 20K.  1x30mm plus 2x20mm make it a good high alt hunter.  Max dive speed is ~100 mph lower than the other 190's but it will glide forever (which is good as the radiator is prone to damage).

Common charachteristics:  Great dive speed (500 ias+) without compression, poor climb rates but zoom climb is good, best roll rates of any plane, poor turn rates but can change direction quickly by using roll rate with gentle turns.

How to fight:  Start fast, preferably with alt.  Look to B'n'Z.  You can turn to get shots but do not turn more than about 540 degrees total during your engagement and pull gently on the stick when doing so (low-G turns).  Never let the stall buzzer sound.  Once you've turned the maximum amount exit in a zoom climb for alt then repeat.  You need ~3-3.5K seperation to reverse on someone chasing you.  Use nose low turns (split-s/low yo-yo, etc.) whenever possible to conserve speed.  In general, avoid looping manouvers however, If the 190 has enough speed to use a vertical reversal (pull up, roll 180 degrees then pull down) you'll have at least one good shot opportunity on the bogie below you and, even if that just gets the bogies attention you may get a second opportunity in a subsequent move.

Best defenses:  Speed.  Lacking speed use a flat or rolling scissors to try and force an overshoot.

IMHO one of the 190's are one of the best familys of fighters in the game if you get to know them and the A-8 is my personal favorite among them.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Fw-190 A8
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2008, 05:26:08 PM »
The F-8 is actually the heaviest by a long shot, but the lightest armed (only the basic inboard cannons, no outboard options). The weight is from the additional armor that protects it in the jabo role. It is not advisable to fly this plane in the fighter role.

Note that on the A-8, it is actually a little tail heavy. Your trim might not be as responsive as you are used to, or perhaps you are nosing down, but at slow speeds and pulling high angles of attack, the center of gravity is too far rearward, which causes snap-stalls.

This is historically correct, only on the real plane they had the weight of the ETC rack to move the center of gravity forward, but in AH this doesn't help out with the CoG (so basically no help there).

The 190a8 has awesome firepower, yes, but don't negate taking just the 20gun option. You save a lot of weight and it makes you fly better, so if you're only concerned with fighters (which 2x20mm can kill quite easily) then there's no problem in taking the light loadout. Your mileage may vary.

Leave fuel burn on auto select. Try the A-5 if you're not used to the A-8's weight. The D-9 is fast but not very nimble. They all take a lot of practice to become proficient. Don't be discouraged if it doesn't suit your current tastes. It's quite capable if you give it the time.

Offline Yossarian

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Re: Fw-190 A8
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2008, 06:20:48 PM »
Ok, thanks for all the help!

I'll keep trying and do my best :D

<S>

Yossarian
Afk for a year or so.  The name of a gun turret in game.  Falanx, huh? :banana:
Apparently I'm in the 20th FG 'Loco Busters', or so the legend goes.
O o
/Ż________________________
| IMMA FIRIN' MAH 75MM!!!
\_ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ

Offline zorstorer

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Re: Fw-190 A8
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2008, 08:55:15 PM »
...Leave fuel burn on auto select...


Even though Krusty will argue this till he is blue in the face, try burning the AFT tank first then switching to auto after its drained.  While the numbers (the weight and position of the tanks) don't support it, burning the AFT tank first makes the plane FEEL like I can pull higher G's in the pull out without the wing dipping in a snap stall.  Unless I take less fuel this is what I do in the 190F8, if I forget and don't burn the AFT tank first is the only time I pancake the plane during the pull out from a diving attack on GVs.

Then again your mileage may vary.

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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Fw-190 A8
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2008, 11:33:51 PM »
While it's true the F-8 is lightest armed, the 2x20's are plenty in a fight.  The performnce specs (climb, speed, turn, etc.) at DocGonzos are almost identical between the A-8 and the F-8 and after several hundred (maybe thousand) missions in the A-8 and many in the F-8 I can testify as to their relative performance in a fight.  I only fly the A-8 with the full 2x20, 2x30 cannon loadout though and that probably helps equalize the weight differential.

Also, I'll often take the F-8 out without ord and use it as a buff hunter/fighter which may skew my viewpoint of it as a fighter.  It's still a good plane in these roles.
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Offline bongaroo

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Re: Fw-190 A8
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2008, 08:57:35 AM »
I wouldn't bother with the 4 cannon load out on the a5.  The 4 cannon setup has two different types of cannon, the older two with the light ammo load are pretty useless imo.  Take the 2 cannon option and be amazed at the better handling!

One thing I notice is that the cannons seem to be low slung comparatively to other wing mounted cannon birds.  Give a little more lead than your used to. 
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Offline kilz

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Re: Fw-190 A8
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2008, 12:39:20 PM »
in ANY 190 to counter that HEAVY nose hit SHIFT F till you see FWD in that color. this will use your nose fuel first.

be careful tho for it will not switch back to ALT on its own, if you forget about it and let the fuel in your nose run out your engine will turn off. dont freak out just hit SHIFT F again till you see ALT or something like that and your good to go.

by burning your FWD fuel first it gives you better dive and climb and helps on the turning if you need to. ONLY IF YOU NEED TO.
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Fw-190 A8
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2008, 04:25:41 PM »
Proper fuel burn in the A-8 and F-8 is Aux/Aft/Fwd and Aft/Fwd in the others.  This is already set up in auto fuel select.  I'd leave it alone to maintain proper balance.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Fw-190 A8
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2008, 04:40:21 PM »

Even though Krusty will argue this till he is blue in the face, try burning the AFT tank first then switching to auto after its drained.  While the numbers (the weight and position of the tanks) don't support it, burning the AFT tank first makes the plane FEEL like I can pull higher G's

Auto fuel selection DOES burn aft first.

You are wrong in saying I think otherwise. I'm against folks that say "burn fwd first"

FYI you *can* pull more Gs if you burn off your aft tank first. It's not just a "feel" but there's a way to test it. Try pulling out of a vertical dive-bomb with a full aft tank and no fwd tank, and you will rip your wings off easily. Do the same with a full fwd and no aft, and you won't. Burning aft tank first is best.


EDIT: Only exception is to burn the AUX first (again, Auto Fuel does this first also! Leave it on auto!) because of stability problems when it has fuel in it.

Offline Yossarian

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Re: Fw-190 A8
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2008, 04:41:22 PM »
Ok, I'll be sure to try these out as soon as I get my joystick back...

Also, is the best way to improve my gunnery just by practice, or is there some special method that you people used?  Right now I basically spray bullets everywhere, and hope for some hit.

<S>

Yossarian
Afk for a year or so.  The name of a gun turret in game.  Falanx, huh? :banana:
Apparently I'm in the 20th FG 'Loco Busters', or so the legend goes.
O o
/Ż________________________
| IMMA FIRIN' MAH 75MM!!!
\_ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ

Offline Krusty

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Re: Fw-190 A8
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2008, 04:47:54 PM »
Film several sorties, doesn't matter if you get any hits.

When you pull your trigger, pause the film. What distance is the plane from you? If it's greater than 400 get in closer. 300 or CLOSER is better.

Now here's the important part: Set your convergence to whatever you saw you were firing at in the film. It doesn't affect you much horizontally (close gun group on 190 guns) but the bullet drop is an issue.


Second: Take whatever you think you need for lead, and DOUBLE it.

Third: Turn tracers OFF. They do not help. They hurt. It's not a crutch issue as much as it is an "they're cluttering up the screen distracting you from what you need to be doing" issue. Once you get hits on targets with regularity, you can turn the eye candy back on, but until then stay focused.

Fourth: TA with LCGS enabled is a good tool to figure lead. Also offline drones.

Offline zorstorer

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Re: Fw-190 A8
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2008, 05:04:15 PM »
Auto fuel selection DOES burn aft first.

You are wrong in saying I think otherwise. I'm against folks that say "burn fwd first"

FYI you *can* pull more Gs if you burn off your aft tank first. It's not just a "feel" but there's a way to test it. Try pulling out of a vertical dive-bomb with a full aft tank and no fwd tank, and you will rip your wings off easily. Do the same with a full fwd and no aft, and you won't. Burning aft tank first is best.


EDIT: Only exception is to burn the AUX first (again, Auto Fuel does this first also! Leave it on auto!) because of stability problems when it has fuel in it.

CC Krusty, must have remembered the 190 thread wrong :)

By the way the 190F8 rockets (Panzer Blitz 1) can kill any vehicle, even the mighty Tiger, outright with the correct shot placement.  Fire them in pairs as that is how they come off the wings so you can get the correct shot each time you fire them.

Offline Krusty

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Re: Fw-190 A8
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2008, 05:14:10 PM »
^-- I can't hit sh** with 'em.

Wasn't there a funky firing order? Where 2 would fire from the same wing or something dumb? Not one from either wing?

Offline zorstorer

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Re: Fw-190 A8
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2008, 07:05:03 PM »
^-- I can't hit sh** with 'em.

Wasn't there a funky firing order? Where 2 would fire from the same wing or something dumb? Not one from either wing?

Yep its 2 off the left wing then 2 off the right wing.  It makes it easier (in my mind) to line up to the kill shot without having to salvo half the rockets.  This is how I do it and it seems to work well.

I move my reticle till it's almost off the sight glass.  Then just dive into the target at about a 45 deg angle.  Line the target up in the center mass of the sight glass (about where the default reticle would be) when the target is about 400m out fire 2 rockets about 1/4 sec apart.  You will get some really close hits with this tactic.  Hits will come with more practice.

It's an amazing rocket system :)