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Author Topic: P-38 turn shock  (Read 2307 times)

Offline LEDPIG

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P-38 turn shock
« on: March 06, 2008, 06:54:16 PM »

  Have gotten into a couple of turn fights in P-38's against Niki's, and La-7's, and noticed the P-38 to my shock and amazement was outurning them. This was a all flaps out, stall fight, at 10 feet off the deck, on both occasions i believe.

It seems to me that the 38 although heavier, is able to sustain a turn at very low E and get the max possible out of a turn without fighting torque and spinning out. Both planes seemed to have been gaining on me before we really slowed down in the turn.

Out turned a few Corsairs and Spits in the same situation. Some just spun out and hit the ground, the 38 was still going.

I personally think the 38's engine arrangement, it's long slender wing, (almost kind of like a glider in wingspan chord ratio), it's flaps are doing this.

Possibly also i believe it's engines produce alot of thrust to brute force power it around without the torque issue. Sort of like an F-15's powerful engines today.

Anyway i've seen it do this before but this time it really surprised me.
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Offline snowey

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Re: P-38 turn shock
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2008, 07:31:59 PM »
yes with wep but no with out it i have no idea why
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Offline EskimoJoe

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Re: P-38 turn shock
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2008, 08:00:30 PM »
Maybe, Just maybe...
...Kinetic Energy?
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Offline LEDPIG

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Re: P-38 turn shock
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2008, 09:08:35 PM »
Quote from: EskimoJoe on March 06, 2008, 08:00:30 PM
Maybe, Just maybe...
...Kinetic Energy?

Neither one of us had kinetic energy EskimoJoe. We were both at or below 150 mph. Barely flying. I was surprised that such a large plane could be able to do that. Though i'm pretty sure why it happened, i wondered what anyone else's thoughts were.
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Offline Saxman

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Re: P-38 turn shock
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2008, 09:12:35 PM »
P-38 has good flaps, and counter-rotating props eliminating torque so she's much more stable at low speeds.
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Offline DoNKeY

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Re: P-38 turn shock
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2008, 09:30:46 PM »
Shhhh!  You guys are letting our secrets out....


donkey :noid :noid


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Offline Raptor

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Re: P-38 turn shock
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2008, 09:56:53 PM »
Secret? Everyone knows the P38 is a great bomber
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Offline LEDPIG

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Re: P-38 turn shock
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2008, 10:17:42 PM »
Quote from: DoNKeY on March 06, 2008, 09:30:46 PM
Shhhh!  You guys are letting our secrets out....


donkey :noid :noid


 :aok

Donkey that donkey saying DA in your avatar......Is soooo funny it's about to kill me.!!!!!!!

 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Offline SgtPappy

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Re: P-38 turn shock
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2008, 10:25:30 PM »
While we're on topic, anyone have good P-38 vs. Spitfire films?

My friend comes over every week so we can play LAN and he believes that I can only beat him whilst flying a Spitfire.

About 45% of th time I win while we're in the same Spitfire. I chose the P-38 as it was one of the most important aircraft in the PTO; an area in which my parents' home country is located. It'd be great if I could see some great P-38 vs. Spitfire films as I plan to shoot him down in a P-38 even though I have not yet dedicated myself to flying it completely.
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Offline Kweassa

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Re: P-38 turn shock
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2008, 11:04:45 PM »

 AkAk's the man you want to see Pappy.

 He's got a great film archive of various combat situations in P-38s.

 
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Offline SgtPappy

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Re: P-38 turn shock
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2008, 11:30:18 PM »
Thanks Kweesa!
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Offline jerkins

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Re: P-38 turn shock
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2008, 12:59:23 AM »
SAPP secrets revealed, or at least some of them.  DaDonkey wrote a ton of great info on flying the 38. 

DaDonkey's write up
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,228792.0.html

IMO this probably had to do with both the huge flaps on the 38 and the counter-rotating props.  No torque is great at stall speed.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: P-38 turn shock
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2008, 10:56:45 AM »
To add to Jerkins, while the flaps are super-effective (they increase area as they deploy, double whammy), the torque-less stall allows you to totally mush through a stall and get shots where any other plane would have snap-stalled or something else. The "clover-leaf" I believe is what 38s called it. Ease up, pull past the stall to gain ground, ease  up, pull past the stall, repeating to get a guns lock on target.
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Offline Yeager

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Re: P-38 turn shock
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2008, 01:52:13 PM »
P38s are my most favourite cartoon plane to kill.  Especially when I get them to turn into the bullet stream.  Love em :)  caveat:  there are a few people that if I know they are online and possibly in my sector, I will avoid 38s altogether.
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Offline 2bighorn

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Re: P-38 turn shock
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2008, 04:04:05 PM »
Quote from: LEDPIG on March 06, 2008, 06:54:16 PM
  Have gotten into a couple of turn fights in P-38's against Niki's, and La-7's, and noticed the P-38 to my shock and amazement was outurning them. This was a all flaps out, stall fight, at 10 feet off the deck, on both occasions i believe.

It seems to me that the 38 although heavier, is able to sustain a turn at very low E and get the max possible out of a turn without fighting torque and spinning out. Both planes seemed to have been gaining on me before we really slowed down in the turn.

Out turned a few Corsairs and Spits in the same situation. Some just spun out and hit the ground, the 38 was still going.

I personally think the 38's engine arrangement, it's long slender wing, (almost kind of like a glider in wingspan chord ratio), it's flaps are doing this.

Possibly also i believe it's engines produce alot of thrust to brute force power it around without the torque issue. Sort of like an F-15's powerful engines today.

Anyway i've seen it do this before but this time it really surprised me.

All of the planes you have mentioned (N1K2, LA-7, F4Us, Spitfires) will out turn P-38 (all models). Most likely pilots you went against, had trouble controlling their rides at slow speeds, which means they weren't as skilled as you.

The torque, with some practice, is controllable for above mentioned planes.
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