Chicago Looks to Ban Baggies

[john9001]

In Chicago cops won't pull you over for erratic driving until you actually hit something. 

if they haven't actually hit something, what is the problem? 

[kotrenin]

if they haven't actually hit something, what is the problem? 

Sorry, let me clarify.

i.e. driving on the wrong side of the road, weaving, blowing stop signs/ stop lights, speeding (more then 10 mph over the limit.)

Not all cops let this slide but a lot do, to the point that when I turned 21 several years ago my neighbor, who is a cop, told me to always stay in the city if I went out to the bars.  The Chicago police have a rep of being far more lenient than suburban police.    (btw I let the "EL" do the driving for me.)

[john9001]

Sorry, let me clarify.

i.e. driving on the wrong side of the road, weaving, blowing stop signs/ stop lights, speeding (more then 10 mph over the limit.)

sorry let me clarify, not stopping for stop signs, red lights and speeding are against specific laws, they are not erratic driving. Driving on the wrong side of the road would be reckless driving and "weaving" is vague and arbitury.

Two fast for conditions is a catch all.

[trax1]

Sorry, let me clarify.

i.e. driving on the wrong side of the road, weaving, blowing stop signs/ stop lights, speeding (more then 10 mph over the limit.)

Not all cops let this slide but a lot do, to the point that when I turned 21 several years ago my neighbor, who is a cop, told me to always stay in the city if I went out to the bars.  The Chicago police have a rep of being far more lenient than suburban police.    (btw I let the "EL" do the driving for me.)

This is very true, I've had city cops find pot on me or friends(this was years ago when I smoked) and the cops would just give it back, a couple times they would even comment on how good it smelled, one time I had a cop tell me that he didn't care about crap like that, that he'd rather be out busting people for worst crimes then spend time doing paper work on little things like pot.  They will even let you drive off if you don't have a license.

Edit: I'm referring to Chicago cops

[Rich46yo]

This is very true, I've had city cops find pot on me or friends(this was years ago when I smoked) and the cops would just give it back, a couple times they would even comment on how good it smelled, one time I had a cop tell me that he didn't care about crap like that, that he'd rather be out busting people for worst crimes then spend time doing paper work on little things like pot.  They will even let you drive off if you don't have a license.

Edit: I'm referring to Chicago cops

                  A lot depends on attitude. Generally we have so much real crime to worry about we are lenient with working people who mess up a bit. We have a lot of gangs and a lot of violence here so it puts things in persective.

[trax1]

                  A lot depends on attitude. Generally we have so much real crime to worry about we are lenient with working people who mess up a bit. We have a lot of gangs and a lot of violence here so it puts things in persective.

Oh definitely, if you lie to the cops they get really mad, so I always found as long as your up front with them about everything, and I mean everything, like if you have no license or you have pot, they tend to cut you a break.

[kotrenin]

A lot of this is also because of the way the "top cops" have decided to deal with crime.  Focusing their resources on drug dealers, murders... the "higher end" crimes. 
Unfortunately I can't find the article from a few years back, comparing Chicago with New York and the deference in the way the Police departments fought crime.  New York went after the "petty crimes", broken tail lights, scofflaws, jay walkers... in the hopes of catching the drug dealers, murderers, rapist, etc. with the mindset that if these people have complete disregard for the law they will probably not comply with the little laws either.  Whereas in Chicago the beat cops are out looking specifically for these same people, trying to catch them in the act, thus incurring a larger sentence. 

[kotrenin]

A few years back at work ( I'm a medic) we had a heroin O.D. run with a 19 year old female found unconscious not breathing in the driver seat of a suv with the engine running.  We brought her back and gave her a stern talking to.  Normally the beat cop would just do a report without any sort of ticket issued or any other consequences, but this time the beat cop had had enough and decided to cite her with driving under the influence of a controlled substance.  Well about a year later we went to court to testify what we had witnessed and had done for her.  She decided to plead guilty and was given community service and rehab.  I'll tell you what, I didn't even recognize her, she had gained 15 healthy pounds during that year, her complexion had cleared up and she didn't look like a deer in the headlights anymore.  After her case was over she caught us (my partner, the cop and myself) out in the hall.  She thanked us and let us know she already started rehab with the help of her family.  She swore to us that she would never get involved with drugs again was trying to set up her community service so she could speak at some schools. I believed her, still do.

[Rich46yo]

A lot of this is also because of the way the "top cops" have decided to deal with crime.  Focusing their resources on drug dealers, murders... the "higher end" crimes. 
Unfortunately I can't find the article from a few years back, comparing Chicago with New York and the deference in the way the Police departments fought crime.  New York went after the "petty crimes", broken tail lights, scofflaws, jay walkers... in the hopes of catching the drug dealers, murderers, rapist, etc. with the mindset that if these people have complete disregard for the law they will probably not comply with the little laws either.  Whereas in Chicago the beat cops are out looking specifically for these same people, trying to catch them in the act, thus incurring a larger sentence. 

                              The "top cops" have nothing to do with it. If anything they "are" the problem with their statistics driven crusades. Those of us on the street mostly cant stand them.

[Nilsen]

Think i may open up my own online business selling little plastic bags to Chicago. 

[DREDIOCK]

The Chicago police have a rep of being far more lenient than suburban police.   

Im guessing but.
This is probably true in alot of big city areas for a couple of reasons.
For one if they arrested everyoe who was slightly over the alcohol limit. There would be nobody to patrol the streets
Larger cities tend to have larger crime issues. Robbery,Gang activity etc.
In short they have more important things to worry about.

whereas Smaller towns and suburbs tend to have much less going on.
And in some cases. so much less the cops get bored and will look to pick up on any little thing.

Example.
When I was a about 15 there was a wooded area we called "The brook" we used to hang out at. Now at that time the town I lived in wasnt always the nicest place to live.  There was alot of crime.
Anyway. We would hang out at  one of the few wooded areas in the town build a fire, and drink beer by the quart.Or case. or Keg. Whatever we could get our hands on.
Cops stopped by a couple of times  and we didnt even bother running. The cops asked us our names and said "Just keep the fire low and dont cause any problems." A couple of days later we ran into one of the cops we recognised as being one of the ones we saw a few nights before. One of my busddies asked him why they didnt arrest us or take our beer"
He said. "We have more important things to worry about. Besides. This way we at least know where you are and where to find you. If we arrested you. You would just find someplace else to go. Just keep the fire down and dont do anything stupid on the way home."

Never really had a problem witht he cops there. They would pop in now and again. and as long as we didnt try to run. they just took our names, and ocasionally our beer. And left telling us to lower the fire.

Fast forward 3 years to a different town. Small town, not alot going on.
Myself and 5 other people were hanging out in a different set of woods with a single 6 pack.All of legal drinking age. No fire, and not making any noise. Just hanging out, enjoying nature and having a beer
Next thing we know about 15 cops surround us like we were the frikken Dillanger gang. On the ground, frisked, Cuffed and arrested and charged for drinking in public.
6 people of legal age. 1 beer each. Talk about culture shock

But again this was a small town with not alot going on.
something like that was a "big" night for them.
that and the time they arrested some guy for taking a leak behind a tree at 3 AM.
cost the poor guy $200.

We used to call them the "Keystone Cops" because of some of the rediculous things they did.
Such as chasing a teen around town with 4 cop cars and the kid on foot because they saw him comming out of a liquor store with a bag in his hand.
I witnessed that one first hand from my friends front porch as the teen was cutting through yards going back and forth and the 4 cars trying to cut him off.
Not one bothered getting out of the car. It was one of the more comical things I've ever witnessed. It went on for about 20 minutes
They never did catch him.

[DREDIOCK]

Two fast for conditions is a catch all.

Always wondered about this
I can "get" driving too fast for conditions.

Why dont we ever see people getting tickets for driving too slow?

Its been my experience that too slow drivers are every bit as hazardous as the ones driving too fast.
Not to mention the traffic backups they needlessly cause

[DREDIOCK]

A lot of this is also because of the way the "top cops" have decided to deal with crime.  Focusing their resources on drug dealers, murders... the "higher end" crimes. 
Unfortunately I can't find the article from a few years back, comparing Chicago with New York and the deference in the way the Police departments fought crime.  New York went after the "petty crimes", broken tail lights, scofflaws, jay walkers... in the hopes of catching the drug dealers, murderers, rapist, etc. with the mindset that if these people have complete disregard for the law they will probably not comply with the little laws either.  Whereas in Chicago the beat cops are out looking specifically for these same people, trying to catch them in the act, thus incurring a larger sentence. 

So which method worked better?
Obviously you cant go by arrest numbers alone as by default NY would have the higher arrest count because of going after every little thing.
Which group arrrested the more "hard core criminals"? (for lack of a better term)

[kotrenin]

So which method worked better?
Obviously you cant go by arrest numbers alone as by default NY would have the higher arrest count because of going after every little thing.
Which group arrrested the more "hard core criminals"? (for lack of a better term)

This is why I'm ticked, I can't find the article now, it was easily 3 or 4 years ago, maybe more.  The New York philosophy was from when Rudy was still Mayor.  I don't remember if the article even had the numbers on hard core criminals caught or convictions. 

It makes me wonder if it only made it harder on the cops because now the criminal element has had to clean itself up and is harder to spot in the crowd or maybe it did stop some crime.  I don't know.  I wouldn't be surprised if it had no effect at all, "bad people will do bad things" no matter what environment you put them in. 

[Rich46yo]

                              Take a good look at prices of homes and property in NYNY and Chicago both before and after and you see the reason why crime is down. That and the fact most of the high rise housing projects have been torn down. I worked them all and they were all crime factories. Cabrini, the Horners, Ablas, Taylor homes, Stateway, Rockwell...ect

                             So now they are down, many of the criminals cant afford to live here anymore, And, since jail populations are way up many arent on the street to do criminal watermelon anymore. But none of those reasons are sexy enough for Politicians both in and out of uniform so they make up programs, deem themselves responsible for the drop in crime, "because they are so smart".

                            What they dont tell you is that our conviction rate for homicide is so bad, most of all in gang-relateds, that its an ugly and dark secret.

                            So what would you rather have? 600 bodies with a 70% closure rate , or 500 with a 30% one?

                           Rudy did nothing special. No doubt it was the rank and file who made NYNY a better place. And since when did the welfare of the property of an honest citizen become a program?

                           You all really have to be careful about believing this newspaper crap and all the statistics that are flung out at you regarding crime. This entire statistics charade is phony anyways, or a lot of it is. Always be suspect of the numbers game. We've gotten caught up in it as much as NY has and I doubt we've done anything different..