Fw190 weight corrections discussion

[TUXC]

Before we get 134 lbs added to the already brick-like 190A-8, has anyone checked against historical documents that the current A-8 weight doesn't already include the weight of the rack?

[Krusty]

I believe the sources linked would have mentioned it. They went so far as to mention fuel load (including AUX) and weapons type. Besides, many speed/climb tests are going to be "clean" because they don't want the drag to skew the performance unless it's non-removable (like P-51, like P-38, etc)

EDIT: Actually, here it says explicitly, "without ETC 501"

http://www.vermin.net/fw190/190-1.jpg

[Bodhi]

I believe the sources linked would have mentioned it. They went so far as to mention fuel load (including AUX) and weapons type. Besides, many speed/climb tests are going to be "clean" because they don't want the drag to skew the performance unless it's non-removable (like P-51, like P-38, etc)

The P-38, P-47, P-51, F4u, and F6F pylons are ALL removable.  It is about a 45 minute procedure a side.

[MiloMorai]

[Krusty]

The P-38, P-47, P-51, F4u, and F6F pylons are ALL removable.  It is about a 45 minute procedure a side.

Yes, but most were left on at all times, and I believe tests were even done with them on, so my example was only to differentiate between, say, a 109 or a plane where the rack was removed when not in use.

[Krusty]

(Image removed from quote.)

Thanks! It seems our MG151/20s are 67 lbs too light overall.

So, what is "flying weight"? Is that full fuel, full ammo?

EDIT: I can't get the image to show up in the quote for some reason. It's milo's image from above.

[Waffle]

I take it that data sheet is translated, cause I don't think the folks in Bremen were typing in English in '44   

[Charge]

"I take it that data sheet is translated, cause I don't think the folks in Bremen were typing in English in '44 "

I'm a bit troubled by that too. Why make it look like an original document if it was translated and made afterwards from original document?

Makes you think that they could make anything that would look like an "original" document.

It should at least read who did the translation and when using what source taken from where.

Should be a pretty basic procedure for all this kind of documentation.

-C+

[MiloMorai]

Want to see it in German then get D.(Luft)T.2190 A-8.

[Charge]

Not my point Milo. Read again.

-C+

[Lumpy]

Yeah that document is a fake alright, but it is such a glaringly obvious fake that I can't imagine anyone trying to use it for nefarious purposes. My guess is the author simply wanted his translated document to look interesting. Lol, even the company logo is translated.

[MiloMorai]

The source has been mentioned numerous times Charge.

If you want to know who did the translation then ask George Hopp. He posts on http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/.

[Krusty]

The fact that it's translated is an issue... why?


There are many manuals used as references in these forums that are in English. Most of them don't say who translated them. Most of them follow the basic form and layout of the original.


I fail to see the importance if one can verify that it's a translation of an original document.


Numbers don't need translating. The data is still the same.

[hubsonfire]

Why not just post a copy of the original, and accompany that with a translation? Why not just post the translation, and a link to the source document? Why try to pass a translation off as the document itself?

[Krusty]

Perhaps because 99% of the folks here can't read German? Perhaps because it's very common to have these already-translated scans saved to a hard-drive?

Perhaps it's just easier to use the translated version you have on-hand, than it is to go and scrounge up the original, and post 2 where 1 would suffice?


Nobody complains when people post japanese data in English. Nobody complains when people post Italian data in English. I'm just not sure why this is an issue here, now, all of a sudden.

He's quoted the source, even. It's not like he's being shady or shifty. I personally don't have access to check the original, but he's not trying to hide anything, and he *IS* the first person to come forward with a legit source on the ETC 501 weight.

P.S. Here *IS* an untranslated version [of a different chart with the same weight], super-imposed with english text.
http://www.vermin.net/fw190/translated-fwchart.jpg
I included it in the first post on this thread.