When torturing is OK for feds shouldn't it be allowed for others too?

[john9001]

do suicide bombers suffer from PTSD?

[Yeager]

do suicide bombers suffer from PTSD?

Those few that survive no doubt do 

[Brownshirt]

Some just don't have the stomach to do what it takes to survive.

Sieg Heil! I think I like your way of thinking

[Bronk]

Sieg Heil! I think I like your way of thinking

Godwin's Law invoked you lose.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Sieg Heil! I think I like your way of thinking

This from a clown calling himself "brownshirt". Who brags about burning people with cigarettes. Go figure.

[NUKE]

You don't rest, you evade. Answer the question: What's the difference between being murdered  by a religious fanatic or being murdered by some other criminal? What's the difference?

Sorry, I did miss this one.

Being murdered is being murdered. No difference. I agree with you.

Now can you answer my question?

Would you rather have your family executed or water-boarded?

[AKIron]

Sieg Heil! I think I like your way of thinking

Don't sweat it. Someone will be on watch tonight and the next night while you sleep comfortably in the land of freedomtakenforgranted.

[SaburoS]

Interesting the position we take based on what we perceive what 'we' do and what 'they' do regarding torture.
Taking a prisoner against his will to let him believe that he will die unless he gives up information whether he knows the answer(s) or not.
Torture is defined by not only the physical but also the mental pain inflicted.
Is racking the bolt back of an AK-47 and pointed to the prisoner's head, then pulling the trigger considered torture?
The prisoner thinks he is going to die right up until there is no 'bang', but a 'click'.
Same for the prisoner that is made to think he will die by drowning unless he answers some questions.
It does not matter what the interrogators think but what the prisoner does regarding torture.

Torture is used from those that are guessing to the guilt of the suspects.

Salem witch hunts. Spanish Inquisition. Nazi Germany. Just a sample of victims of torture that were forced to confess things they were not guilty of. This from the worst type of torture.

We cannot demand of our enemies to not torture our own if we do practice torture. rather hypocritical.

[Arlo]

I don't see the advocates of torture making such demands. I don't think they really care. I even suspect they have a morbid desire to see torture more widespread and universal ... as long as they think they can avoid it personally. Sadder still is, throughout their stages of denial of torture being torture, justifying torture as being tit for tat (therefore perfectly acceptable) and claiming torture is the only practical way to gain accurate information they seem oblivious to the world they're creating for their children. Generations following this one may not be so lucky to live in an America of rights against such things as torture if thier "parental role-models" manage to make it an accepted practice and paint it red white and blue in doing so (not that the world they leave for them to deal with has ever been a real concern). It'd be nice if they would take care to exemplify the characteristics of one who doesn't have the tendencies of promoting (perhaps secretly enjoying) the idea of torturing anyone ... no matter how much they're desperately afraid of them.

Of course .... then there's their labeling others as fascists or communists on a whim to make a point. Heaven help anyone who shines a mirror back without a "Godwin! You lose!" whine erupting. Yeah ... hypocricy be their way.

[Fishu]

Is racking the bolt back of an AK-47 and pointed to the prisoner's head, then pulling the trigger considered torture?
The prisoner thinks he is going to die right up until there is no 'bang', but a 'click'.

This has been quite popular form of torture. People have been tortured by letting them think they've been sentenced to death and after that they've been released just prior to the execution or they've been shot at with blanks in a fake execution. Some people have died of heart attack in the fake executions.

How's that for mental torture?

[midnight Target]

As long as you understand that the Geneva conventions never mattered to anyone other than the "good" guys. Geneva convention rules only slowed down the good guys. The bad guys never followed them and never will.

Now do we understand each other?

The fact that the convention rules don't matter to the bad guys does not, and should not be an invitation to the good guys to feel free to break those rules. Things that we as a society deem evil, continue to be evil whether our enemies do it or we do it ourselves. Torture is evil. <---period

[john9001]

Salem witch hunts. Spanish Inquisition. Nazi Germany.

so now waterboarding 3 terrorists is the same as "Salem witch hunts. Spanish Inquisition. Nazi Germany".

thats quite a stretch.

the enemy is right, america is too soft to win this war.

[Fishu]

so now waterboarding 3 terrorists is the same as "Salem witch hunts. Spanish Inquisition. Nazi Germany".

thats quite a stretch.

the enemy is right, america is too soft to win this war.

That's how it begins. Totalitarism that is. Soon it is no more 3 terrorists but 30000 assumed terrorists. Besides, I really doubt waterboarding has been only used on 3 terrorists - that's just the cases they've let us know about.

[Lumpy]

Sorry, I did miss this one.

Being murdered is being murdered. No difference. I agree with you.

Now can you answer my question?

Would you rather have your family executed or water-boarded?

Depends on the family member. Some I'd like to have executed, and one I wouldn't mind to see tortured a bit first. However, even if I have my own personal violent desires and depravities does not mean that I want my government to have them too. Just because I would like to kill someone with my bare hands does not mean I want my government to kill people. Just because I very well might resort to torturing someone if the circumstances were desperate enough does not mean I want my government to torture people. Secrecy is the enemy of democracy, and a powerful government is the enemy of freedom. I like to be free.

Oh, and btw. I'd like to torture you a bit too. I'd like to pour water down your breathing passages until you cry for mercy, then I'd continue some more to ensure a lasting impression (read: claustrophobia, aquaphobia, anxiety attacks and depression). Just to force you to understand that "waterboarding" is torture. However I wouldn't want your government to do so to you.

[NUKE]

Depends on the family member. Some I'd like to have executed, and one I wouldn't mind to see tortured a bit first. However, even if I have my own personal violent desires and depravities does not mean that I want my government to have them too. Just because I would like to kill someone with my bare hands does not mean I want my government to kill people. Just because I very well might resort to torturing someone if the circumstances were desperate enough does not mean I want my government to torture people. Secrecy is the enemy of democracy, and a powerful government is the enemy of freedom. I like to be free.

Oh, and btw. I'd like to torture you a bit too. I'd like to pour water down your breathing passages until you cry for mercy, then I'd continue some more to ensure a lasting impression (read: claustrophobia, aquaphobia, anxiety attacks and depression). Just to force you to understand that "waterboarding" is torture. However I wouldn't want your government to do so to you.

Do I get to wear my rubber outfit?

Well Lumpy, I never said that I didn't think waterboarding is not a form of torture. I don't think they actually put water down your nose though, I have heard that they put some plastic over the face and then pour water. I'm really not sure though.

Hear is my view:

If we catch enemy combatants on the battlefield (or capture them in any other way) who are out to kill Americans, and if by waterboarding them we can save American lives, I want our government to be able to do it. I don't think it was ever intended to be used on civilians.

If we are fighting an actual enemy army  that is following the geneva convention rules of war, then not. But when we catch these bastards that are running around in bathrobes and trying to attack and kill Americans, I don't care what we do to them really.

Maybe that's wrong, but that is my view of it.