Americans Launch Attack

[Slash27]

I don't see history being rewritten. The article was factual. Is it wrong to point out that the bombings were horrible or that many died?

I was wondering if the wrong article was linked.

[moot]

Yeah, the Germans used NO "weaponized" chemical in the war ... LOL

[MORAY37]

See Rules #4, #5

[SIG220]

I was wondering if the wrong article was linked.

It was not just the text of the article, which was actually written 3 years ago by an Associated Press reporter on the 60th Anniversary of the Firebombing.

The left-leaning website that reprinted this article on the 63rd Anniversary this week added the photo and all of the text that is under it.   And it was the addition of that text by the folks at Common Dreams that had references in it to the attack being a war crime and a terror attack. 

I'm sure that is the opinion of the staff at Common Dreams.

You ought to check out all of the garbage they have on their website.   The latest is that Governor Spitzer was being specifically targeted by the Bush Administration, and that is how they managed to detect his transactions to the Escort Service.   They claim that such transactions would never normally have been detected, unless the Republicans were abusing their power to go after him.

So you see, it is President Bush who is to blame for Spitzer losing his job:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/12/7639/

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[SIG220]

See Rules #4, #5.

But all of the munitions being used to kill American servicemen were being built by women in their war factories.   Are you trying to say that these women were not legitimate military targets??   Without them, the factories would of had no workers to make the weapons killing our troops.

I would gladly have killed a dozen Japanese women myself, if it meant saving the life of just one American serviceman.

You also need to better understand Japanese society back then.   Their military lost a great deal of "face", because they were not able to protect their homeland.   By the United States slaughtering civilians, the Japanese military were humiliated and disgraced by their inability to stop it.   Their standing in Japanese society was destroyed.   Thus allowing civilians the opportunity to end the insanity of the war, which the military had originally started.

The Firebombings and Atomic Bombs were the kindest and most humane things that the USA could have done to Japan at that time.   For the alternative was to invade the country, which would have caused much more massive loss of civilian lives.

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[Lumpy]

That statement is absolute nonsense.

The Germans never used their Chemical weapons in WWII because they KNEW for a fact that the Allies would then retaliate in kind.

How would the air war have been different, if Allied bombers had been dropping chemical weapons on Germany??


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My statement makes absolute sense in relation to Nuke's post. He stated that the Germans didn't hold back anything, but they did. You just stated the reason why they did, but that does in no way invalidate my statement or the fact that the Germans did hold back. Even on the Russian front.

[MORAY37]

See Rules #4, #5

[SIG220]

My statement makes absolute sense in relation to Nuke's post. He stated that the Germans didn't hold back anything, but they did. You just stated the reason why they did, but that does in no way invalidate my statement or the fact that the Germans did hold back. Even on the Russian front.

Of course your statement is complete nonsense, because you included your bogus reason for holding back as part of it.

You cannot separate the two, or pull just a part of the statement out, and say that it is then valid.   Either the statement stands as a hold, or falls apart as a whole.

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[MORAY37]

See Rules #4, #5

[FrodeMk3]

You are creating a false impression of the timeline of these events.   Here is the chronological order:

August 6, 1945   Hiroshima bombed

August 8, 1945   Soviet Union declares war on Japan

August 9, 1945   Nagasaki is bombed

In addition, the Japanese had been counting on the Soviets to be the mediator for their negotiated end to the war.   And since they were no longer neutral, their hope of furthering such negotiations collapsed.

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True, but you have to also remember that because of info leakage from the Manhattan Project, Stalin knew about the Atomic bomb by the time of Potsdam. With the war in europe wrapping up, He knew his time was short. The end of the war would literally stop him in whatever territories' he currently occupied. The A-bombing would literally be the final buzzer in the end-war Asian land grab.

Imagine how different maps' would have been, had the bombing's occured before the German's finally capitulated? An earlier end to the war in Asia might have kept Communism more at bay (or at least considerably delayed it's spread) due to the Unavailibility of Russian Troops' to occupy Manchuria.

[SIG220]

See Rules #4, #5

Yes, I would argue that all of the countless civilians ( and the even more millions of their ancestors ) who did not die, because the USA did not have to invade Japan, would have considered that approach to be far more humane.   Sparing lives is considered to be more humane than killing a far greater number of people.

Face it: Your course would have been the much bloodier and murderous choice for President Truman to have made.   And by the way, most historical accounts put Japanese civilian casualties for the war at less than 600,000.   In contrast, in the case of Nazi Germany ( which was invaded ) civilian deaths are estimated to have been around 1,700,000, almost 3 times that.   Only a little more than 400,000 civilians are estimated to have been killed by the Allied Bombing campaign against Germany.  Russia and China ( which were both invaded ) had by far the highest civilian deaths recorded in the war.

As far as the Third Reich goes, what exactly is the analogy that you are trying to make?   You don't explain it.   It would appear that you are comparing America's firebombing of Tokyo to the Nazi Concentration Camps.   If that is the case, then you are well beyond my ability to adequately describe your thinking.

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[Lumpy]

Of course your statement is complete nonsense, because you included your bogus reason for holding back as part of it.

You cannot separate the two, or pull just a part of the statement out, and say that it is then valid.   Either the statement stands as a hold, or falls apart as a whole.

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There was nothing bogus about the reason I stated.


"The United States began producing chemical weapons late in the conflict. they established the Chemical Warfare Service (CWS) and first participated in a chemical weapons attack with the British October 13, 1918. One of the casualties of that attack was a young infantryman named Adolf Hitler. The gas inflicted such pain that Hitler had to be evacuated to Germany. The attack may have saved countless lives because it cemented in Hitler a lifelong hate of chemical weapons which influenced many policies in the second World War.

Hitler's aversion to chemical weapons continued throughout the second World War. Against the wishes of many of his high commanders, Hitler wanted to use chemical weapons only in retaliation against a similar attack. However, he continued to push the German military to produce and stockpile weapons to ensure German superiority should the Allies commence chemical warfare (Tucker, 2006)."


My statement stands.

[SIG220]

See Rules #4, #5

As I described in my previous post, it is your position that is far less humane, and clearly lacking in human compassion and mercy.  The alternative was a blood bath, which you appear to would have rather seen happen.

You have a very serious misunderstanding of the history of WWII, if you think that invaded nations did not suffer by far the worst civilian casualties.  History also shows that the Japanese government was organizing civilians to participate in the defense of their homeland.

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[Vulcan]

See Rules #4, #5

Moray, this is basic history, if you going to try and be a smartarse do some research first, so you don't end up looking like a sad excuse for an apologist:

At some battles, such as Iwo Jima, there had been no civilians involved, but Okinawa had a large indigenous civilian population. Okinawan civilian losses in the campaign were 140,000; in addition, it is estimated that more than a third of the surviving civilian population was wounded.

During World War II, when many Okinawans still spoke a different dialect, Japanese troops treated the locals brutally. In its history of the war, the Okinawa Prefectural >The Basic Concept of the Okinawa Prefectural Peace Memorial Museum Peace Memorial Museum[9] presents Okinawa as being caught in the fighting between America and Japan. During the 1945 battle, the Japanese Army showed indifference to Okinawa's defense and safety, and the Japanese soldiers used civilians as human shields against the Americans. Japanese military also took all their food, and executed these who hid it, leading to a mass starvation.

With the impending victory of American troops, civilians often committed mass suicide, urged on by Japanese soldiers. They persuaded locals that victorious American soldiers would go on a rampage of killing and raping. (A revisionist historian has claimed that rape was "a general practice against Japanese women", estimating in excess of 10,000 victims during the Okinawa campaign.[1] Ryukyu Shimpo, one of the two major Okinawan newspapers, wrote: "There are many Okinawans who have testified that the Japanese Army directed them to commit suicide. There are also people who have testified that they were handed grenades by Japanese soldiers" (to blow themselves up).[10] Some of the civilians, having been induced by Japanese propaganda to believe that U.S. soldiers were barbarians who committed horrible atrocities (It has been suggested that the mutilation of dead enemies by U.S. servicemen may have been referenced), killed their families and themselves to avoid capture. Some Okinawans threw themselves and their family members from the cliffs where the Peace Museum now resides. Other Okinawans were murdered by Japanese to prevent their capture or to steal their food and supplies. Japanese American Military Intelligence Service[11] combat translators with the U.S. military tried to convince civilians to not kill themselves, even climbing into caves to talk to them. Their efforts had limited success.[12]

[ROX]

...  The issuing of henry repeater rifles is not an example of total war.  Sherman's March to the Sea is.

Hate to tell ya....your only half right.

Correct...Sherman's March to The Sea (as well as the ensuing hook North to the Carolinas) is an excellent example of Total War.  Bringing overwhelming numbers to bear, and releasing restrictions on soldiers forraging for food from civilian homes & also burning civilian homes.

Issuing repeating rifles to the Union Army was also an example of Total War.  The prior technology only allowed a rifle reloading at a rate of 20 to 30 seconds (depending on the soldier)...a repeating rifle that could allow a soldier to fire once every 2 to 3 seconds (depending on the soldier) was considered inhumane by some due to the utter carnage that a small contingient of soldiers equiped with them could do.

Especially when they were used against an enemy that only had the old technology.

Had the Gatalin Gun been produced in greater numbers, it too would have been an example...but too few were made.


ROX



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