Americans Launch Attack

[Bronk]

You calling me a shade? A shade of what?

I liked you better as uvwpvW.

[Lumpy]

Why, when I have already proven beyond any doubt whatsoever that your original statement was wrong, bogus, incorrect, inaccurate, erroneous, false, untrue, unsubstantiated, undocumented, counterfactual, not right, in error, and also misguided??

You need to look back at what you originally said.


_____________________________ ____________

So I will:

Unlike in The Great War, the Germans didn't use chemical weapons during WWII even if they had them at their disposal. They considered it too cruel a weapon. During the development of the A-bomb it was though to be just a very powerful explosive in military circles. The horrific after effects were not widely known.

That statement is absolute nonsense.

The Germans never used their Chemical weapons in WWII because they KNEW for a fact that the Allies would then retaliate in kind.

How would the air war have been different, if Allied bombers had been dropping chemical weapons on Germany??


_____________________________ _____________________________ _________________________

There was nothing bogus about the reason I stated.


"The United States began producing chemical weapons late in the conflict. they established the Chemical Warfare Service (CWS) and first participated in a chemical weapons attack with the British October 13, 1918. One of the casualties of that attack was a young infantryman named Adolf Hitler. The gas inflicted such pain that Hitler had to be evacuated to Germany. The attack may have saved countless lives because it cemented in Hitler a lifelong hate of chemical weapons which influenced many policies in the second World War.

Hitler's aversion to chemical weapons continued throughout the second World War. Against the wishes of many of his high commanders, Hitler wanted to use chemical weapons only in retaliation against a similar attack. However, he continued to push the German military to produce and stockpile weapons to ensure German superiority should the Allies commence chemical warfare (Tucker, 2006)."


My statement stands.

So what part of my statement was wrong, bogus, incorrect, inaccurate, erroneous, false, untrue, unsubstantiated, undocumented, counterfactual, not right, in error, and also misguided? Nothing.

I think you're just incapable of admitting you were mistaken. Considering you are more often wrong than right in your posts on this forum it is an unfortunate character flaw.

[Holden McGroin]

But please tell me of a single kid or woman in america that was burned alive,

May 5, 1945 Bly Oregon--

Bly minister Archie Mitchell, his five-months-pregnant wife, Elsie, and five children from his Sunday school class were on a Saturday morning picnic. When he stopped to park near Leonard Creek, his wife and the children jumped out and headed to the creek. Within minutes, the six - Elsie Mitchell, 26, Jay Gifford, 13, Edward Engen, 13, Dick Patzke, 14, Joan Patzke, 13, and Sherman Shoemaker, 11 - were dead.

"As I got out of the car to bring the lunch, the others were not far away and called to me they had found something that looked like a balloon," Mitchell recalled later.

"I heard of Japanese balloons so I shouted a warning not to touch it. But just then there was a big explosion. I ran up there - and they were all dead."

[angelsandair]

look I didnt read any of the posts but here is the thing. THEY started the war with us. THEY bayoneted babies, raped women, killed and tourtured prisoners, not to mention the Bataan Death March were if you fell, you were expected to get shot (if you were lucky) or bayoneted. They found it entertaining to beat prisoners and people of conquered terrotories. They not only did that but would refuse to surrender until all were dead. So a small firebombing raid that was to save millions more is not that big of a deal. They started it with things much worse. I did not see the link. I'm just posting this. I still feel the right for older american vetrans should still have the right to be mad at them for Pearl Harbor, their friends, the tortured.

But hey, when my dad was stationed in Germany in the 80s, things were much worse. Almost all of them hated the americans there.

[SIG220]

So I will:

<< re-quoted text and new personal attack omitted >>

As far as myself having a "character flaw" regarding my beliefs on this issue, I will now turn the tables here and instead take a look at your position.   

How should a person like yourself be judged for your beliefs that you have stated here??  Someone who argues that the Nazis held back on using chemical weapons because they were against using "cruel" weapons???

Do you not realize that your words are defending the most perverted, cruel, and immoral regime in recent world history??   What insight does that provide??

Well, I have big news for you:  The Nazis were NOT against cruelty or using cruel means.   They embraced cruelty, brutality, and sadism all throughout WWII.   The only reason why they did not use chemical weapons was due to the threat of retaliation.   And that is the ONE and ONLY reason.   Not because they had any moral reservations about using weapons that were considered to be too cruel, as your original statement so incorrectly states.

And that is the simple TRUTH of this matter, no matter how much you argue here and try to spin things around.   Your statement was totally and most definitely WRONG, despite the fact that you are unwilling to admit it. 

Now that you have sunk so low here in your latest post to making a remark of a person nature against me, I am ending this conversation with you.

Feel free to have the last word here.

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[dmf]

Forgot to make the post I wanted to make when I quoted this, so here it is, I guess the fire bombings were part of war, country's fight wars over various reasons, but the end result is the same in every war, someone wins someone loses, it doesn't matter if it was from a bullet, grenade, airplane, tank, land mine firebomb, nuclear bomb or a CNN camera man with a microphone, somebody's gonna get dead. So whats the big deal about planes dropping firebombs in WW2 on Japan? Thats basically pointing out the obvious, a plane dropped some bombs, same thing as when Japan bombed Pearl harbor some planes dropped some bombs.

[Lumpy]

As far as myself having a "character flaw" regarding my beliefs on this issue, I will now turn the tables here and instead take a look at your position.   

How should a person like yourself be judged for your beliefs that you have stated here??  Someone who argues that the Nazis held back on using chemical weapons because they were against using "cruel" weapons???

Do you not realize that your words are defending the most perverted, cruel, and immoral regime in recent world history??   What insight does that provide??

Well, I have big news for you:  The Nazis were NOT against cruelty or using cruel means.   They embraced cruelty, brutality, and sadism all throughout WWII.   The only reason why they did not use chemical weapons was due to the threat of retaliation.   And that is the ONE and ONLY reason.   Not because they had any moral reservations about using weapons that were considered to be too cruel, as your original statement so incorrectly states.

And that is the simple TRUTH of this matter, no matter how much you argue here and try to spin things around.   Your statement was totally and most definitely WRONG, despite the fact that you are unwilling to admit it. 

Now that you have sunk so low here in your latest post to making a remark of a person nature against me, I am ending this conversation with you.

Feel free to have the last word here.

_____________________________ ___________________________

Reading your post it is obvious that you have a personal stake in this debate. Perhaps you are Jewish or have some other personal reason to hate the Germans. Despite the horrors they committed against what they called sub-human peoples the FACT remains that the Germans were in General MacArthur's words "civilized conquerors". The FACT remains that despite a clear advantage in chemical weapons technology through the discovery of the nerve agents tabun and sarin by Gerhard Schrader, a chemist of IG Farben, the Germans refrained from using it ... they held back. The only chemical weapons available to the allies were primitive WWI chemicals like mustard gas. The FACT remains that after being himself exposed to the horrors of chemical warfare in the Great War Hitler hated chemical weapons and did not want to use them even when his ally Japan did use them. The FACT remains that the United States of America and the Empire of Japan are the only two countries who used weapons of mass destruction in WWII.

Germany held back. Even in the last desperate days of the Third Reich with Germany in ruins and nothing to lose Hitler didn't use chemical weapons, and no personal bigotry and hateful ignorance from you is going to change that FACT.

[AKIron]

Even in the last desperate days of the Third Reich with Germany in ruins and nothing to lose Hitler didn't use chemical weapons, and no personal bigotry and hateful ignorance from you is going to change that FACT.

What was it they were piping into those gas chambers that killed millions of jews?

[Lumpy]

A cyanide-based insecticide called Zyklon B. You obviously overlooked my comment on "sub-human peoples".

[AKIron]

A cyanide-based insecticide called Zyklon B. You obviously overlooked my comment on "sub-human peoples".

Murdering human beings by the millions as did both the Germans and the Japanese without conscience because they are "sub-human" is as much an atrocity and inexcusable as any act during war.

[Lumpy]

Unquestionably.

[Halo46]

I got news for you, we fire bombed japan so badly we only had a very* short limited list for citys to drop the nukes on, and we still did it.

And till this day the american people are still the only humans on this planet that are guilty of nuclear genocide.
Ah yes, the sins of this great nation. 

Genocide: the deliberate extermination of a race of people - Oxford American Dictionary. I missed the part where we nuked the Chinese, Koreans, Thais, etc... War is not a nice thing and there is no 'chivalry' when it comes to warfare, not even in medieval period. Using the tactics and beliefs of this era to judge the actions of those in that era will never work. Ethnocentric history will always be seen differently by the parties involved.

[Lumpy]

The Japanese are a separate race in their own right. So are the Chinese, Koreans and Thais for that matter.

[Halo46]

Sorry your mistaken. Race and ethnicity are seperate issues. Either way there was no concerted effort to kill Japenese outside of armed conflict to be confused with genocide. Mass murder by Japan, Germany, Turkey, Italy and Russia are all well documented. Either way, the disparity of knowledge and language of participants in the BBS is a source of constant amusment. Especially entertaining are those who engage continuously to disagree with any and everyone in the hope of being able to resort to disparaging remarks. 

[AKIron]

Ethnicity becomes race over a prolonged period. The Japanese and Koreans are a good example. It is believed by some that Koreans settled Japan about 16 thousand years ago. Don't tell that to a Japanese though.