Author Topic: New La-7 graphics/skin  (Read 1148 times)

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8800
New La-7 graphics/skin
« on: March 16, 2008, 11:04:48 AM »
I noticed that the upcoming rework of the La-7 shows the "white 23" paint scheme of Pavel Golovachyov of 9 GIAP. However, I have a profile that shows nose art and a yellow spinner.





Does anyone have an actual photograph of this aircraft?

My regards,

Widewing
« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 11:23:04 AM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: New La-7 graphics/skin
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2008, 01:49:57 PM »
Interesting to note, also, yours also has noseart which is not on the AH skin.

Offline hammer

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2198
      • netAces
Re: New La-7 graphics/skin
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2008, 04:45:13 PM »
Several other major differences in the color demarcation lines... different plane with the same number perhaps?

Hammer

JG11
(Temporarily Retired)

Offline Treize69

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5597
      • http://grupul7vanatoare.homestead.com/Startpage.html
Re: New La-7 graphics/skin
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2008, 05:36:23 PM »
That would be my guess too Hammer. I noticed the difference, but don't have a scanner to have put the profile up. Its from Ospreys "LaGG and Lavochkin Aces of WWII", page 57. I just put it down to being a different aircraft, or the same aircraft at a different time.
Treize (pronounced 'trays')- because 'Treisprezece' is too long and even harder to pronounce.

Moartea bolșevicilor.

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20385
Re: New La-7 graphics/skin
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2008, 05:56:14 PM »
That would be my guess too Hammer. I noticed the difference, but don't have a scanner to have put the profile up. Its from Ospreys "LaGG and Lavochkin Aces of WWII", page 57. I just put it down to being a different aircraft, or the same aircraft at a different time.

Gotta keep in mind, that Osprey's profiles are someone's interpretation too.  Ever since Willard Millikan's P51B showed up with invasion stripes, even though he went down in it in May 44, I've been a bit suspect unless there is photos to back it up.  That was in Mustang Aces of the 8th.  And as with any black and white photos, sometimes the guess on colors is just that...a guess.
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8800
Re: New La-7 graphics/skin
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2008, 06:39:46 PM »
Several other major differences in the color demarcation lines... different plane with the same number perhaps?

That's why I'm curious if anyone has a photo of the aircraft. However, as far as I can tell, the arrow tipped lightning bolt was unique to the 9 GIAP.

Here's yet another profile of the same aircraft...



My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Fencer51

  • Aces High CM Staff (Retired)
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4679
Re: New La-7 graphics/skin
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2008, 07:46:52 PM »
The update must be postponed until this is resolved!  :O
Fencer
The names of the irrelevant have been changed to protect their irrelevance.
The names of the innocent and the guilty have not been changed.
As for the innocent, everyone needs to know they are innocent –
As for the guilty… they can suck it.

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17989
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: New La-7 graphics/skin
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2008, 08:27:03 PM »
The update must be postponed until this is resolved!  :O

Can someone spot for me? I want to lob a shell "through" a hill at Fencer   :devil

Offline TwinBoom

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2960
      • 39th FS "Cobra In The Clouds"
Re: New La-7 graphics/skin
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2008, 09:04:00 PM »
Can someone spot for me? I want to lob a shell "through" a hill at Fencer   :devil


your fallin 2 clicks short get that bastage
TBs Sounds 
39th FS "Cobra In The Clouds"NOSEART

Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2542
Re: New La-7 graphics/skin
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2008, 05:45:55 AM »
Only one way to fix this, make it striped red yellow and white.  :rock


~383Rd RTC/CH BW/AG~
BaDfaRmA

My signature says "Our commitment to diplomacy will never inhibit our willingness to kick a$s."

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: New La-7 graphics/skin
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2008, 09:23:20 AM »
And add in some neon lime green and some purple, JUST to ensure your eyes bleed when you see it...  :t

Offline Treize69

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5597
      • http://grupul7vanatoare.homestead.com/Startpage.html
Re: New La-7 graphics/skin
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2008, 11:01:51 AM »
Don't forget the neon lights in the wheel bays...
Treize (pronounced 'trays')- because 'Treisprezece' is too long and even harder to pronounce.

Moartea bolșevicilor.

Offline Greebo

  • Skinner Team
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7019
Re: New La-7 graphics/skin
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2008, 07:44:34 PM »
I'm not sure which profile Airmess used for the La-7, but I know first hand how much they can vary. For the Likholetov La5FN I found three profiles of the aircraft; one from Osprey, one from Squadron and one from a book called Soviet Air Force Fighter Colours 1941-45 by Erik Pilawski. The Squadron one had a yellow slogan, spinner and rudder, the other two had a white spinner and rudder, but the slogan was silver in the Osprey book and white in the Pilawski book. I went with white because that looked right in the photos of the plane I had. In the end most of these profiles are just another artist's interpretation of a black and white photo.

There are a lot of not too accurate Soviet skin profiles around, brown and green La-7s for example (they were all grey, either 1 or 2 tone). I think some of these were done in the Cold War era when there was a lot less info to be had on VVS colours in the West.

The Pilawski book is probably the best source on VVS colours. It even goes into the different disruptive schemes used by the various Soviet factories for each aircraft. The VVS colours at Simmer's Paintshop are based on research done for this book.

Offline Tilt

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7358
      • FullTilt
Re: New La-7 graphics/skin
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2008, 07:44:15 AM »
A few comments

The Lightening bolt was used by regiments seconded to 303IAD (Division) and for a period such as 9GIAP and the Normandie Neimen and others bore this insignia. It basically identified VVS ac in use through out Northern Ukraine, Belorus, and later Poland/Prussia and later still Germany and Berlin.

There is a drawing of another (Earlier La7) White 23 used in Latvia by a Major of 32GIAP this does have an all red nose.




Source is Osprey I think so be wary.............. I need to check up on "32GIAP" to get some idea of its accuracy.


Re the skin tone.

IMO Greebos rendition of the La5FN uses more accurate camo that would indeed have been the camo originally used on White 23. Greebos camo is the colours fresh out of the factory gate however and some darkening/ staining may have subsequently occurred.

Out of the factory door they were varnished so the colours would have appeared bright but this would have dulled as the varnish yellowed darkening the colours slightly possibly turning the grey(AMT 11 or 12) colour more olive.

Strangely IIRC 9GIAP whilst being Lavochkin equiped in late 44 did not see action in their La7's until (in the main) January. So White 23 of 9GIAP in December would have been in pristine condition at that time.

Mono coloured La7's of 1945 used the darker camo colour of the two tone previously used but some aircraft in use during the winter of 44/45 will have had a light lime wash applied lightening the colours which may have had insignia picked out again in the spring. Popkovs La5FN Yellow 01 is almost certainly one of these where by his flight number and (some think) the star border were picked out in yellow and his flight leader stripes freshly added.

White 23's nose cone IMO should be yellow. Osprey often shows yellow VVS markings as white (Popkovs yellow 01 for example) I have other pictures showing yellow cones on White 23.

The star on the tail  of AH White 23 is shortened at the hinge joint. I think this is a skinning error.

There are no stars on the under side of AH White 23  wings. I have not seen a skin of White 23 that does not include them.

The fuselage star of AH White 23 is smaller than all skins of White 23 I have copies off.

The rivits around the exhaust sheild are over done IMO as are those over the wing joint.

All renditions of White 23 I have also show the La7 insignia over the star on the tail vert. However this may have been lost along with the shortening of the star below it.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2008, 07:55:57 AM by Tilt »
Ludere Vincere

Offline Tilt

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7358
      • FullTilt
Re: New La-7 graphics/skin
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2008, 02:14:02 PM »
To confirm Golovachev recieved White 23 in Oct 44 but was not able to fly it in anger until the 30th december when after two months of bad weather he was able to up and intercept a Ju88 recconnaissance plane at 9000m altitude.

After expending his entire clip he was unable to bring it down and so performed a ramming attack from the rear cutting thru the epennage of the Ju88 which lost control and dived to the ground. 

The la7 did not sustain serious damage other than to the airscrew however Golovachev was able to fly it home.

The only  photo of White 23  I have does not include the spinner but do have one of white 24. Which also has a yellow spinner. It was flown by Golovachevs (more famous) compatriate of 9GIAP Maj. Amet Kahn Sultan.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2008, 02:17:01 PM by Tilt »
Ludere Vincere