Author Topic: Remains of the WWII Cruiser HMAS Sydney Finally Found!  (Read 736 times)

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Remains of the WWII Cruiser HMAS Sydney Finally Found!
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2008, 01:12:29 PM »

                        <S> Believe me its just a relief to find out your not American. Go ahead, sheep away.

                          I look at it differently SIG. I look upon the German use of false colors as dishonorable and the crew of the Sidney, in the manner they fought back so courageously, as honorable. I hope nobody messes with the ship and they are allowed to rest in peace.
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"

Offline Fishu

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Re: Remains of the WWII Cruiser HMAS Sydney Finally Found!
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2008, 02:11:46 PM »
I look upon the German use of false colors as dishonorable and the crew of the Sidney, in the manner they fought back so courageously, as honorable.

The german crew did as they were ordered and it seems they did it with honor as far as they were permitted. It is the leaders on the top who are to blame for the operations under false flag. Many nations had ships operating under false flag, yet some of those are not only honorable, but heroes, while the others are dishonored. Either they are all honorable soldiers of their respective countries or they aren't. You can't simply draw a line to the honor depending on the nationality. It's the deeds that matter, was their mission executed honorably or not.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 02:15:30 PM by Fishu »

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Remains of the WWII Cruiser HMAS Sydney Finally Found!
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2008, 02:39:30 PM »
The german crew did as they were ordered and it seems they did it with honor as far as they were permitted. It is the leaders on the top who are to blame for the operations under false flag. Many nations had ships operating under false flag, yet some of those are not only honorable, but heroes, while the others are dishonored. Either they are all honorable soldiers of their respective countries or they aren't. You can't simply draw a line to the honor depending on the nationality. It's the deeds that matter, was their mission executed honorably or not.



                        My opinion? While I believe the Kriegsmarine was an honorable service I believe their use of false colors in disguised merchant killers as "dishonorable". Its true the Brits used it against German submarines "Q-ships" in WW-l but to the best of my knowledge none of the allied Navies used disguised merchant raiders to attack merchant shipping. And most certainly didn't use false colors along with it.

                      The Germans had about a dozen in WW-ll if I remember right. However I would say the Allies were correct in not executing the German merchant raiders that were captured. Were it the other way around I'll bet Hitler would have executed our sailors. Remember the fuss he made over the Brit commandos who fought in their own uniforms? I have no doubt the Nazis would have executed allied sailors if caught operating ships of this type under false colors.

                    The funny thing is that the crackpots who were running the Japanese and German Empires thought the sons of free peoples wouldnt fight with the type of courage as shown by the sailors of HMAS Sydney. Boy were they proven wrong.
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"

Offline Fishu

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Re: Remains of the WWII Cruiser HMAS Sydney Finally Found!
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2008, 04:29:21 PM »
Brits deployed the "Q-ships" also in the WWII against the U-boats, although unsuccesfully. False flag was often used to carry out special operations. The false flag may not been used directly to attack the enemy at sea, but it made it much more convenient to get through to the enemy target, which may not been possible without the transportation under false flag.

Offline Gh0stFT

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Re: Remains of the WWII Cruiser HMAS Sydney Finally Found!
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2008, 06:15:58 PM »
Fishu thanks for the Link, i just read this and i hope you dont mind posting some parts here,
if the source is true, its incredible what happened there that time. Fighting in war, from one second to another
it can become so gruelsome.

"Theodor Detmers was at the same time, the youngest and the lowest-ranked of all the Hilfskreuzer commanders.

His performance was not particularly outstanding, taking just 12 ships, totalling 75,375 tons, during 351 days at sea, but his last day afloat was the most glorious of all the Hilfskreuzer commanders, if not of all German naval commanders in WW2.

He took on a regular warship, the Australian Navy’s 6,830-ton Perth-class light cruiser, HMAS Sydney, sister-ship of the Ajax and Achilles, packing eight 6-inch guns and capable of a top speed of 32 knots … and sank her.

Without any doubt, his fate should have been the same as that meted out to the HK Pinguin six months earlier by HMS Cornwall, but, inexplicably, the Sydney’s commander, Captain Joseph Burnett, seemingly unaware of the lessons learned in that battle, closed the distance to the Kormoran to around 1,000 metres.

Clearly the Kormoran’s disguise was excellent, and the reply to the key question "Give me your secret identification code" like all the dialogue between the ships, was by flag, with continuous repetition due to the deliberate flag fumbling and the poor English of the supposed ‘Dutch’ skipper of the ‘Straat Malakka’.

Detmers was a master in the art of such time wasting, during which the cruiser moved ever closer, enabling him to open fire on her at almost point-blank range.

The Sydney suffered many hits even before the first full broadside from the raider’s main armament hit her.

The automatic fire from the Kormoran’s 37mm and 20mm guns and heavy machines-guns was devastating, killing everybody on the bridge and decks, setting the Walrus seaplane on fire on its catapult, where it sat, engine running, but not ready for launching due to the catapult being trained inboard, and destroying all the lifeboats and rafts.

Seconds later, a torpedo struck the Sydney below the forecastle, taking both A and B turrets out of action.

The Sydney scored four hits on the Kormoran with her X and Y turrets, setting her on fire, but in an apparent effort to ram the raider, the crippled cruiser crossed her wake, exposing her entire starboard side to the German gunners.

Once again, the automatic fire from the Kormoran destroyed everything on Sydney’s starboard superstructure, and as with the previously devastated port side, this included all the lifeboats and rafts.

This is believed to have been the main reason for the loss of all 645 officers and men on board when she subsequently went down.

When it became clear to Detmers that the fire on the Kormoran was out of control, and threatening the mines, he gave the order to abandon ship."


The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.

Offline -tronski-

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Re: Remains of the WWII Cruiser HMAS Sydney Finally Found!
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2008, 11:19:39 PM »
Brits deployed the "Q-ships" also in the WWII against the U-boats, although unsuccesfully. False flag was often used to carry out special operations. The false flag may not been used directly to attack the enemy at sea, but it made it much more convenient to get through to the enemy target, which may not been possible without the transportation under false flag.


Kormoran fought valiantly and used all her armaments and tricks to her advantage, as should all naval vessels...the Sydney was a fine ship with a fine crew who will be remembered with  a national memorial next month on the 24th (a day before Anzac Day)...


As for those stinking sheep loving New Zealanders...well we've shared enough trenches, and blood together that they think they're almost as good as us: their big brothers across the Tasman...it also means like brothers when we fight each theres no bigger rivalry, but theres no better friend when we've stood together (especially against the english!!)

...its lucky for us thier love of Australia is only bettered by their love of gumboots, Rugby, Russell Crowe, inter family relationships, and ewes...

 Tronsky
God created Arrakis to train the faithful

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Remains of the WWII Cruiser HMAS Sydney Finally Found!
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2008, 12:50:38 AM »
You know all those kiwi's moving to Sydney are raising the average IQ on both sides of the tasman mate.

Offline EskimoJoe

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Re: Remains of the WWII Cruiser HMAS Sydney Finally Found!
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2008, 12:54:54 AM »
 :salute all that were on board the HMAS Sydney when she sank. Rest in Peace mates.  :(
Put a +1 on your geekness atribute  :aok

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Remains of the WWII Cruiser HMAS Sydney Finally Found!
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2008, 01:45:41 AM »
I wouldn't consider any opponent wielding a torpedo 'lightly armed'.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone