Can you give me an example of....

[Blammo]

I have been thinking a lot about the idea of "fighting up" and how it applies to situations I find myself in.  From early on in this game I developed habits: some good, some not so good.  So, I am look to improve on some aspects and want to know how to apply "fighting up" in certain instances.

Here is one that comes to mind:

Flying along a 5K+ AGL.  Con comes running up on my 6 (or from 5 to 7, let's say).  He is either co-alt or slightly higher.  He is about 1K and closing.

Now, I have gotten in a habit of rolling inverted and pulling a split S.  This will work on some, but I know there are several problems with it:

1)  I am trading of altitude for temporary evasion

2)  Bandit has alt on me (if they did not follow me down)

3)  Bandit has position on me (again, assuming he didn't follow me down, he is still on my six and higher).

I know sometimes you can just pull a high G turn, but this is not a good solution if the enemy con knows what they are doing and knows how to use vertical.

I also know I already messed up by letting him get on my six.

So, what I would like to know is how would I fight this situation up?  No trade of altitude by pulling the split S and not losing E/Airspeed for a flat High-G turn.

Thanks!

[Barnes828]

Turn and HO 

[Balsy]

I have been thinking a lot about the idea of "fighting up" and how it applies to situations I find myself in.  From early on in this game I developed habits: some good, some not so good.  So, I am look to improve on some aspects and want to know how to apply "fighting up" in certain instances.

Here is one that comes to mind:

Flying along a 5K+ AGL.  Con comes running up on my 6 (or from 5 to 7, let's say).  He is either co-alt or slightly higher.  He is about 1K and closing.

Now, I have gotten in a habit of rolling inverted and pulling a split S.  This will work on some, but I know there are several problems with it:

1)  I am trading of altitude for temporary evasion

2)  Bandit has alt on me (if they did not follow me down)

3)  Bandit has position on me (again, assuming he didn't follow me down, he is still on my six and higher).

I know sometimes you can just pull a high G turn, but this is not a good solution if the enemy con knows what they are doing and knows how to use vertical.

I also know I already messed up by letting him get on my six.

So, what I would like to know is how would I fight this situation up?  No trade of altitude by pulling the split S and not losing E/Airspeed for a flat High-G turn.

Thanks!

Blammo,

1. Turn into your opponent at 1.5 out.

2. Looking back at the opponent, only turn enough to avoid a guns solution <his solution on you>  (mid g turn)

3. If it looks likes hes going to pull a lead shot TIGHTEN your turn (even add a click of flaps if you can).... Keep looking at your opponent.

4. As soon as its obvious hes going to miss the shot, release some g's while barrel rolling back into the opponents path of flight (overshoot).

5. take snap shot if you have it or level off and get your e back.

rinse and repeat.

Look me up online and I will demonstrate.

Balsy

[Noir]

I'd say your choice reallt depends on the plane you are flying....and If you want just to avoid or kill the guy.

If a con comes on my six usually I try to dive a bit (to a speed where my plane can still be turned) to reduce our speed difference (and thus pushing the nmy plane out of his envelope), start a light flat turn) as the guys closes from 1.5k to d800 while reducing gaz, then turning hard in the same direction at the last moment (the timing is everything, pray the guy has tracers on). At worst you just have avoided the guy, and he lost quite some E, at best he tries to turn in after passing you, and should pop right in front of your guns if you are slow enough. But watchout some people know how to use gaz control also =)

I don't know if that exemple is clear enough for you, but the point is to look like an easy enough target all the time so the guy comes down with you, and make the minimum move required to avoid the pass and make him loose E.

[Dragon]

Get into your parachute, jump out of plane, use chute to lose E and Ho the enemy with your pistol.   

[Latrobe]

If he is faster than you then what I would do is pul a slight G turn. When he gets closer, roll over the other way and pul a slight G turn again. When he gets within 800-600, roll over and pull a harder turn then you have been doing (but not a high G). When he's 200 off, barrel roll the opposite way you are turning and watch him overshoot. You now have a 4-5 sec window to put some led into him, and if you're lucky he just may make the mistake off turning hard and loosing all his E with you on his 6 now.

[Blammo]

Get into your parachute, jump out of plane, use chute to lose E and Ho the enemy with your pistol.   

Figured I wouldn't get out of this without a smart*$$ comment from dragon 

But now that I think of it, with my luck lately....maybe I will give it a try 

[Grits]

Reversal. Drag one direction then as he gets close roll reverse back over on his 6. If you get good at it you will get a good close range shot as he overshoots.

[Shuffler]

Lots of missing information that would affect your actions. Most importantly plane type for you and your adversary. Closure speed.... on and on...

[nimble]

It really does depend on the plane IMO. I like when people do the usual split-s evade, because like you said, it's temporary and just handing someone an advantage, plus people with good gunnery can pop your profile at times.   I usually let them keep my 6 especially if they aren't that much higher while in a slight dive until our E is about equal, then begin to turn slightly in the dive and try to force the overshoot with a barrel roll. Most people do not get hits because they are still closing on you but unable to dump G's from the turn, especially if there is some blackout involved, and generally do overshoot.  This especially works well when flying heavier planes like a jug or corsair, your acceleration is as good in a slight dive as your deceleration when you want to go for the overshoot. Just my opinion

[GooseAW]

some have more or less the same reply as this but....

Assuming the con has a marked E advantage (is a good bit faster than you),  I start (at about d800-d900) a fairly hard nose low turn away from my plane's prop torque. when I think the faster plane is about to pass behind me (overshoot) I pull vertical slightly and barrel roll back in behind the passing con. As others said, when timed right you may have a brief solution on him. If not rebuild your E and repeat. After a couple of tries the con will often chop throttle or pull harder to try and saddle up. Now it's up to you to do some o that flyin s(*% since you are more or less Co-E. Timing is everything.

[FireDrgn]

Check out Murdrs website look for video of  "whymerge"  I would set this classic reverse up if they are within 1.5 and moving pretty fast...

or  normally I will turn back into Nme plane before they get within 1.5

[dedalos]

Flying along a 5K+ AGL.  Con comes running up on my 6 (or from 5 to 7, let's say).  He is either co-alt or slightly higher.  He is about 1K and closing.

Right where he you want him.  Actually we will assume that he is 1.5K so you have some time to make a decision. How fast is he?  If he is closing fast, nose down 10 or 20 degrees to pick up some speed and make him even faster, and start a shallow turn (lets say right).  Watch if he is following and try to keep him just out of getting guns on you but close enough so he keeps following.  At about 800 (depends on closing speed) you should start going up.  A few degrees, just enough to create a 3D problem form him. 

If he follows you, keep tightening your turn and climb.  At about 400, give him the shot for a split second.  Release pressure on the stick just for a split second, then pull up and do a barrel roll.  Depending at speeds you may get a shot at him on his way up.  If the guy is new or gets greedy, and you time it right (takes practice) he could end up right in front of you at D200.  If not, level off shallow dive for speed, since and repeat.

If he only followed for a little bit and broke of at d600 to go up, he still has alt on you, but he is not on your six anymore.  He is most likely going to settle for the BnZ.

It works, unless the guy figures out what you are doing and hits the breaks.  Then he ends up D100 on your six   

Planes will make a big dif here too.  50cal will allow you to shoot him at further distances and also allow you to play with him a little since a ping or two wont matter.  4 Hizookas though and you are really playing with fire there, lol.

[Anaxogoras]

Some kind of scissors maneuver is often effective when your bandit is going a bit faster than you are.  You burn a bit of e but you don't lose so much altitude as you do with a split s.  Another effective tactic is turn enter a gentle bank and then push negative g's to redout at the right moment.  I see people do it all the time, and since you regain vision almost immediately, there is little penalty.

[Blammo]

Thanks to everyone (except Dragon    ) for the good advise and insight.  If I understand correctly, I should try to keep nose down to keep energy up as much as possible and avoid energy wasting maneuvers (high G turns, etc) unless I am going to get a shot or I have no other option (I will get shot otherwise).  Wait for the other guy to commit then get out of his line of flight and drop back in to take the snapshot.  If he breaks away, build up E again and repeat as long as needed to get the shot or the con makes a mistake.

My remaining questions are, is there a sign he is on to what I am doing and what is a con's typical counter to this?  These may not be answerable, but I thought I would ask anyway.

Balsy: I will look you up when I have the chance and thanks for the offer.