Author Topic: P-39 Handeling  (Read 1755 times)

Offline Nimrod45

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P-39 Handeling
« on: March 19, 2008, 06:29:08 PM »
I am away and won't be able to play for a while, but am curious as to how bad the under wing gun pods effect the handeling.  Some body please throw me a bone. :pray

Offline Saxman

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Re: P-39 Handeling
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2008, 07:30:08 PM »
Don't know about the gun pods, but my impression of the 39D at full gas:

Takeoff roll the first time is a little surprising as it takes a good bit of right rudder to keep the nose straight. Landing configuration also requires a decent amount of rudder or trim to stay straight on approach. This is a ship that will REALLY benefit from rudder pedals.

Acceleration seems above average. She seems to wind it up fairly well nose-down.

Rate of roll is good at moderate speeds, and greatly assisted with rudder added in the direction of roll. A little sluggish at very low airspeeds, but again the rudder greatly assists. Rudder authority is fairly strong at low and medium speeds. Haven't had a chance to really try it out at the upper end of the speed range to see how it compares with the F4U's.

Her snap-roll is less than remarkable, and she seems to hesitate before kicking over. Being used to the F4U which will snap-roll to the left at the drop of a hat this feels rather unresponsive. The P-39 will NOT snap right. She'll do roughly half a revolution then drops right out of it if you stop control input. To the left she'll continue rolling until recovery, which seems generally quick. She doesn't seem to lose a great deal of altitude in the snap-roll.

Maneuverability isn't mind-blowing but definitely qualifies at the upper end of good. The P-39D will give a LOT of opponents a run for their money in a low-speed turning fight in the weeds. Horizontal turn rate and radius are good at most speeds, and like the F4Us dropping a notch of flaps at the right time will really haul the nose around. She'll also pull through the top of a loop rather smoothly even at relatively low airspeeds with only one or two notches of flaps, and seems to handle relatively well in low and high yo-yos. Some of the guys taking her for a ride in the TA report you need to be really smooth with the controls. I didn't really experience any noticeable problems, but wasn't really getting jerky and ham-fisted with the stick, either.

At low altitudes she doesn't seem to suffer from an appreciable lack of power, though there's no WEP which is especially missed at the top of loops. Rate of climb seems average, maybe a little better. Late war iron should dominate in contests of pure engine muscle, however.

Departure doesn't seem too rough. Stalled her out and hung her on her prop for a few seconds before she finally nosed over, and after she settled from the flopping around when the nose came down recovered fairly easily.

Unable to really get a feel for durability in the TA. I'd prefer to test this in the DA once the map is updated.

Firepower in the 39D is a bit of a concern because of the three drastically different weapons. I only played with the 37mm, which has ballistics, muzzle velocity and rate of fire drastically different from the .50cal and .30cal machine guns. This gun has a lot of drop, even in convergence, so is not going to be an easy weapon to use against maneuvering targets--I had to pull a LOT of lead to get any hits at 200yds with this set as convergence. I suspect it will be of better use in ground attack, with the 20mm as an air-to-air package. The cowl .50s are the "killer" guns once the cannon goes dry. The only thing bad I can say about the Ma Deuce is the 39D only has the two. Also, the ammunition counter for the .50cal is included in the count for the four .30s in the wings, so it's VERY easy to run out of ammunition in the cowl and only be slinging BBs without realizing it. I've never found the light machine gun in any of its incarnations or packages--whether Browning .30cal, .303 or 7.7mm--all that threatening. There's a TON of ammo in the .30s, but it will TAKE a ton to do any appreciable damage with only four of them. Fortunately the .50 and .30cal machine guns are close enough in ballistics that gunnery won't be as much of a chore. I suspect this will be helped further when taking the 20mm over the 37mm, as the 20mm will much more closely match the ballistics and muzzle velocity of the .50s. Ordinance is a single 500lb bomb, so while this would make the 39D an attractive alternative to the dedicated dive-bombers in the Early and Mid arenas, in the LW Mains it won't be much worth taking.

Views vary. The forward view is pretty good, though the sides aren't remarkable due to heavy framing. The dead-six view is ok if you lower the head position. 6-high is quite poor, though can be made serviceable with adjustment of head position.

All in all, she won't get me out of my Corsair any time soon, but I think she's going to surprise a lot of opponents in the classic MA furball.
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Offline Urchin

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Re: P-39 Handeling
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2008, 07:42:16 PM »
The D is pretty much a gigantic POS.  No redeeming features.  Slow, unmanueverable, accelerates almost as fast as a goon.  The 37mm sucks, but the Hizooka only has 60 rounds, so you are better off with it. 

The Q isn't as bad.  I think it'll see about as much use as the TA-152.

Offline Widewing

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Re: P-39 Handeling
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2008, 08:09:13 PM »
The D is pretty much a gigantic POS.  No redeeming features.  Slow, unmanueverable, accelerates almost as fast as a goon.  The 37mm sucks, but the Hizooka only has 60 rounds, so you are better off with it. 

The Q isn't as bad.  I think it'll see about as much use as the TA-152.

Well, you sure as hell don't want to use flaps when fighting in a P-39D... Mind boggling drag. 25 second circles is simply awful. Stay away from the flaps and it's pretty good until you scrub off all of your E. It reminds me of the P-40s, but is actually inferior should you dump flaps. Not a lot of power to play with.

On the other hand, the P-39Q gets around a circle in 17.5 seconds clean, at 154 mph. That's better than the 109F-4, 109G-2, C.202, C.205 and very similar to the Spit16... As I measure it, the P-39Q fits in between the Ki-81 and La-5 in turn radius and rate in clean condition, without gun pods.

I'll do more comprehensive testing over the weekend.

Speed figures for the P-39Q were checked (no gun pods). 329 mph @ SL, 374 mph @ 9.7k (this should be critical altitude for the Q). I managed 380 mph @ 11k and 382 @ 12k. So, speed from sea level to 12k is as good or better than the F6F-5, but I don't understand why the P-39Q adheres to the MIL power speed curve by altitude. It should make its best speed at 9.7k in WEP. However, it isn't a big problem.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

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Offline Iron_Cross

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Re: P-39 Handeling
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2008, 10:10:35 PM »
I generally agree with Widewing, on the Q model.  Some things I would like to add tho are a 17K max alt limit.  Anything above that and you should be calling the glue factory, 'cuz your beating a dead horse.  Performance drops dramatically above this height.  Its best performance "butter" zone is ~8-12K.  Below 8K I would look to extend to friendly territory, have a wingman with me, or only engage with advantage.  Above 12K again I would have a wingman with me or engage with only a significant E advantage.  Dives are typical American Iron, It pours on the coal quick and screams like a Banshie.  High speed handling is excellent in roll, pitch, and yaw, with no heaviness, even through 500mph.  E retention is good, but be especially gentile with the controls as a heavy hand will scrub E like granny going down the highway with the emergency brake on. 

That's it for now, see you in the skies.

Offline LEDPIG

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Re: P-39 Handeling
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2008, 01:44:16 AM »


Sounds like a P-38 a little bit worse. I'm used to alot of problems and things you should do or not do flying, 47's,38's and 51's, sounds like this has less power to help you out with all that. How should my tactics differ from the planes i already mentioned.

Sounds like the gunnery will be mostly wait till at 200k to use the heavy armament. The 30 cal's don't bother, and the 20's use them sort of like a Spitfire's, with damage taking a little longer to build up.

All in all looks like a BnZ'er, with the ability to get in a close dogfight with the Q and surprise some people. You lose E though your dead and it'll take you all day to get it back. Don't blow all your E and let yourself be a target.
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Offline Noir

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Re: P-39 Handeling
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2008, 03:56:05 AM »
that 37mm is a pain to use...low velocity low damage low ROF...I put 4 hits in a lanc tail fuselage with no apparent damage...another lanc I put 2 hits between the 3 and 4 engine and 2 hits in the tail with no apparent damage either, all hits came from 6 or low 6. I did put one and a B26 in fire with a single hit between third engine and fuselage when coming from higher (2nd engine for B26). I hit an ar234 in the wing from 6 also, it kept flying. My hits are confirmed 37mm hits as I only fired secondary, the NS37 37mm that uses the Ya9t is way better IMO.

I was very surprised by the turn capabilities of the P39Q, I didn't use gondolas and gave a hard time to spit16's, not to mention you can dive away from them. The diving capabities are amazing, acceleration is a very good and will require some time to adjust =) A stang will go all out to catch you in a dive.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2008, 03:59:12 AM by Noir »
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Offline Squire

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Re: P-39 Handeling
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2008, 05:42:27 AM »
P-39Q:

Dove on a B-17, a few hits and it went to kingdom come. Attacked a Ju-88 formation and got all 3. I think the 37mm is certainly effective, but we can't expect miracles. Did some merges vs 109s, 190s, P-51s, LAs,  N1K2s, ect seemed to hold its own.

It dives very well!!! (550 TAS+) turns not too badly at all, and has a decent speed (328 WEP at S.L.)

Climbs @3000 fpm with WEP.

With a DT you get @40 minutes flying time.

...It was never going to be "uber" (its a 1943 fighter) but its a decent little a/c.

So far I like it.
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Offline Noir

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Re: P-39 Handeling
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2008, 05:50:39 AM »
looks like the WEP runs for a long time, 15Mins or so. I think I'll be using wep on initial climbout at all times like on the ta152.
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Offline Charge

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Re: P-39 Handeling
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2008, 06:08:41 AM »
I was surprised with benign stall both accelerated and pulling the nose up and stick back waiting to fall into flat spin. No flat spin but I managed to get into an unrecoverable inverted flatspin. Feels like any a/c with engine in front...

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Offline Greebo

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Re: P-39 Handeling
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2008, 06:55:56 AM »
Has anyone tried emptying the cannon and 0.5 ammo out of the nose and then spinning it?

Offline Squire

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Re: P-39 Handeling
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2008, 06:59:06 AM »
WEP is 5 minutes.
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Offline Urchin

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Re: P-39 Handeling
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2008, 07:04:05 AM »
Stall didn't seem very benign to me, I managed to auger the D in twice and the Q in once by stalling it at slow speed / high AoA.

Offline Ghosth

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Re: P-39 Handeling
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2008, 07:34:55 AM »
Well in a series of fights between myself and Bighorn. (Him in the p39Q )

Slower planes that are not real good turning planes are going to be the p39's main meat.
N1k vs p39 When I was in p39, had no problem getting and staying behind the nik. When bighorn was in p39, I was able to get a kill shot, but he quickly ended up on my 6. Once saddled up of course there was no getting rid of him.

Spit 8 vs p39 I lost once, draw twice when I didn't follow bighorn into his setup and eventually won one.
Spit 16 I lost once and draw once. Has more power but bighorn was able to out turn it easy.

Russian planes are IMO going to be good p39 killers.
Both the la5 and the yak were able to use good energy tactics to defeat the p39's intial turn.
Once bighorn turned a couple of times and blew E the russian birds could go UP and he didn't have the E to follow. At that point roles switch and hunted becomes hunter. Was not hard to roll in behind it and get a solution. If the p39 tries to escape its either unrecoverable stall, or flying into ground time.

Was probably easier in the Yak, but la's gives you so much more ammo.




Offline Noir

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Re: P-39 Handeling
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2008, 07:50:23 AM »
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