Calif. woman slain while calling 911

[Elfie]

You are correct, the spread is not as great as most people think, but your chances of hitting something is greater then that of a small handgun.  Most civilians are unaware of how much their shooting skill decreases when they are scared.

There are multiple factors that can effect the size of the pattern at any given range. At typical ranges inside a home you aren't going to have a huge pattern regardless of the various factors involved. The widest pattern would be with a barrel that has been cut down from factory length and now has no choke. Even the type of wad used inside the shell can effect how quickly the pattern spreads.

[Elfie]

Examples of different types of wads used in shotgun shells.

The first type is a disc shaped wad. Shot patterns with this type of wad will tend to spread quickly and immediate pattern size increases can be expected.

Example: http://www.circlefly.com/html/products.html

This second type of wad is far more common and will result in a pattern that initially spreads less quickly than the previous type of wad. This tye of wad actually holds the majority of the shot charge inside of it. Once the wad leaves the barrel, the petals begin to fold back and the air resistance causes it to fall away from the shot charge. This type of wad also has the benefit of protecting the pellets (to a degree) from the barrel itself and results in fewer *flyers* downrange.

Examples of this type of wad: http://www.gunaccessories.com/Claybuster/default.asp

*edit* I will amend a previous statement and say that the widest pattern at 15 feet would be with a sawed off barrel and shells loaded with the disc type wads.

[Xargos]

Thanks Elfie, I'll use that info for my next batch of reloads.

[Ack-Ack]

I wonder what would have happened had she been able to have a firearm in her house and the law allowed her to use it to protect herself?? Instead she was required to to call the police to help her and now shes dead.

This is the sort of thing that happens when guns are taken out of the law abiding citizens hands. Now I knwo it doesn't mention anything about the woman not having a gun, but the truth is there all the same.

The police can't protect you when someone breaks into your home....only you have the ability to effect the outcome provided you have the proper tools at your disposal.

Someone should drop this news artical off at the Supreme Court for the justices to read before they render their official position on the 2nd Ammendment. Kinda makes you think huh???

It's funny how you try and spin this into some gun control debate.  There was nothing preventing them from owning a gun other than their own decision not to. 


ack-ack

[Elfie]

Thanks Elfie, I'll use that info for my next batch of reloads.

Before my youngest was born I used to reload all my own shotgun shells. When she came along she took that room and I had to get rid of my reloading equipment since I had no place to store it. My reloader was a single stage deal, but I could still get 4 to 6 boxes an hour out of it if I got on a good roll.

[FrodeMk3]

It's funny how you try and spin this into some gun control debate.  There was nothing preventing them from owning a gun other than their own decision not to. 


ack-ack

It's a good point, AA. However, it can as easily be used against guns' as for them. With a probability that it will be used either way, with the current case(s) in the SC, and the fact that it's an election year. IMHO it's pertinent, politically, but not in the way's that many here see it.

[lazs2]

yossarian..  your country never had many homicides even when there were no laws at all against its subjects owning any type of firearm they wanted.   you were a little rough on the peoples of other countries of course.

As your population becomes less lilly white and more diverse these things may change tho.. but you do have a tiny little country.. gun control does work here at disneyland say..

I mean no insult but look at the above and draw your own conclusions.

lazs

[lazs2]

shotguns...  in a prison you have concrete floors and lots of room.. long wide hallways and such... a shotgun would be great there.. not at all like a home.

for spread... I used to section 250 grain lead semi wadcutters for my 44 mag.. three peices loaded one on top of the other..  at 20 feet the "spread" was about 6"..   with 2 pieces.. it was about 2" at that range.   A shotgun in the dark in a home is pretty clumsy but it will work.

I am not a fan of the showy racking the slide thing.. why announce where you are?

lazs

[Yossarian]

yossarian..  your country never had many homicides even when there were no laws at all against its subjects owning any type of firearm they wanted.   you were a little rough on the peoples of other countries of course.

As your population becomes less lilly white and more diverse these things may change tho.. but you do have a tiny little country.. gun control does work here at disneyland say..

I don't know what the statistics are, but what you're saying makes sense.

And Toad, I haven't searched, and probably won't (as I have a lot of revision and not a lot of time to make my points).  Whilst I think it would be unreasonable to expect people to change their minds during the course of a debate on a BBS, I nevertheless believe that gun control, when carried out effectively, is the best option there is.

In an idealistic attitude, for example, I would far rather that no countries possessed nuclear weapons etc and therefore have no risk of them ever being used, than multiple countries having them, and only not using them because of their own morality and the knowledge that doing so would probably ensure their own destruction as well.

<S>

Yossarian

[lazs2]

yossarian.. again.. people of other countries that you imposed gun control on may not agree that it is the best solution.. ghandi even said as much.. that it was the worst thing you did to his people..  Hitler felt that gun control was good for the jews.

You seem to feel it is ok for government to have guns.  criminals always will.. if not guns.. they will use any weapon at hand..  even hands or sheer numbers.   I do not consider hiding in my room while strong men burglarize my home to be a good solution..   more than half your burglaries happen while the people are at home.. "smash and grab" is an invention of your country.. 

rule by the strongest and most ruthless?  maybe that is the solution.   Not for me tho.   Just showing the gun here changes the minds of a million or so criminals a year here.   In your country.. it would be a matter of who was the strongest or most ruthless.

Not what I want.   I am willing to pay any price to not have that.

lazs

[Napoleon II]

So.. someone else got shot during an armed break in in this wonderful country of ours. Almost not newsworthy.

Seems like this happens much less in countries that don't have armed criminals - not that I'd be willing to give up my glock

[Jackal1]

In an idealistic attitude, for example, I would far rather that no countries possessed nuclear weapons etc and therefore have no risk of them ever being used, than multiple countries having them, and only not using them because of their own morality and the knowledge that doing so would probably ensure their own destruction as well.
Yossarian

Idealistic to say the least. A fairy tale standard even.
In terms of gun control though that is just what is trying to be sold...idealistic fairy tales.
In terms of government, there is only one reason, one reason alone that a government wishes it`s citizens to be unarmed.
Criminals will always have guns......period. Governments will always have guns and weapons.
The only.....very only thing that gun control and bans do is unarm the law abiding and take away their tools to protect themselves.
I prefer to be armed and able at least to make an attempt to protect myself and family and my property.
I will remain armed.......no matter what.

[FrodeMk3]

So.. someone else got shot during an armed break in in this wonderful country of ours. Almost not newsworthy.

Seems like this happens much less in countries that don't have armed criminals - not that I'd be willing to give up my glock

It was someone living in a suburb, in a 2 million dollar home. That put it in the news.

If it had been an apartment complex on the intersection of Alemeda and Crenshaw, it would never have gone past the local gossip corner.

[Slamfire]

I've never been for the tiny dogs, but I've heard that Dachshunds are interesting dogs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hrYFiC8OBU

Mini Dachshunds are not only phenomenal watchdogs, but are incredibly good "household varminters" as evidenced by this video.
(my fiance's dog)

Slamfire

[Shuffler]

speaking from personal experience........ the unmistakably loud sound of the crack, sling, and lock of a shotgun works remarkably well too.

You might note.... that sound also alerts the intruder as to your whereabouts in the home. So the racking of a shell in your gun works both ways. Never assume the intruder will run when hearing that sound. Be prepared!