Author Topic: arena setups  (Read 1108 times)

Offline Anaxogoras

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arena setups
« on: March 22, 2008, 01:57:24 PM »
Ok, let me stick my opinion where it might not belong.  I'd like to see more AvA setups with purely ETO or purely PTO setups.  In the current setup you see Fw190s, F4us, Zekes and C205s all in the mix together.  The AvA gives me slightly more immersion feel than the MA, and I think that's why a lot of us like it.

For example, I really enjoyed the PTO setup about a month ago with the IJA vs the USN (except for the puffy ack).  There were no LW aircraft to speak of, as it should be.  Let's have something along similar lines in the next AvA, pretty please? :pray
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Offline Grits

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Re: arena setups
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2008, 05:35:55 PM »
In the past, PTO setups with only Japanese aircraft have seen very low turn outs. The IJN/IJA plane set is so lacking that they end up on the short end of the stick in almost any setup, and as a result they are unpopular.

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: arena setups
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2008, 06:03:05 PM »
The Ki-84 is a great aircraft.  So long as it's available I don't think any unpopularity is due to the planeset.  Fwiw, I stopped attending the PTO AvA arena because of the puffy ack.  It was fun for a while, but exploding before you even the see the enemy got tiresome.

Howabout a purely ETO setup, then.
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Offline bkwolf

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Re: arena setups
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2008, 07:36:44 PM »
Ahh grits beat me to it G...
1st time I ever logged into the AVA it was PTO and I started to get excited...maybe with some IJN/IJA additions.
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Offline Grits

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Re: arena setups
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2008, 10:05:28 PM »
I agree, the Ki84 is a great aircraft and its one of my favorites, but it is in a small part of the war in the Pacific, and therefore the possible sets for the AvA. The majority of the AvA sets feature USN/USAAF planes that utterly dominate the IJA/IJN planes and are not much fun. From a personal standpoint, being the son of a USMC pilot, I have always had more interest in the war in the Pacific than in Europe, but that does make holes in the Japanese planeset go away.

Offline flatiron1

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Re: arena setups
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 06:22:25 AM »
what does eto, pto mean?

Offline Larry

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Re: arena setups
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2008, 06:31:59 AM »
PTOs are unpopular because allies dont like to leave thier CV ack. That and they always come in at 10k above the fight so they can run back to thier CVs when they get someone on thier butt.
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Offline Odee

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Re: arena setups
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2008, 09:01:00 AM »
what does eto, pto mean?
European Theater of Operation
Pacific Theater of Operation
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Offline Arlo

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Re: arena setups
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2008, 09:29:10 AM »
In the past, PTO setups with only Japanese aircraft have seen very low turn outs. The IJN/IJA plane set is so lacking that they end up on the short end of the stick in almost any setup, and as a result they are unpopular.

Just gonna add a little from my own perspective, too. I believe it backs up what you're talking about but also expresses the frustration historical immersion players are feeling with the current state-of-affairs.

I've traditionally supported additions to the IJ planeset to bring in more opposition players in a Pac setup. But, to be honest, if an F4U fan, like me, is to see his ride featured in the AvA on more than a rare occurance, HTC would have to model the rarest of late war IJ aircraft (if what I hear most often cited by the playerbase is correct). That's something HT and co are loathe to do for two reasons. First, the smaller player base of Pac war oriented players and secondly their stated desire (with some exceptions, now and again) to model the more commonly used equipment from the war over the more "exotic" and rare.

I think the closest we ever came to having a pure Pac setup that provided something for all fans of that theater was one where we set the Axis side to have pretty much access to every IJ plane modeled off of every island they had a base on and with one additional IJ fleet (cruiser flagship, I believe) and the Allies side to have nothing but the earlier planeset (both US and British - USN, RAAF, USAAC) from the islands closest and the CVs and left the late-war set in a few limited fields further back This made encounters between IJ planes and late war Allied planes more rare and forced Allied players who preferred certain late-war rides to ferry their planes in and practice traditional tactics in their planes to survive.

The complaint that preceded the exodus of Axis pilots that week was that Allied players were doing just that. Ferrying F4Us to the battle, BnZing and ... omg *gasp* ... even refueling and rearming at Allied bases and ships to keep their late war ride in the fight! Eventually VF-17 had to fill in the gaps, switching to fly IJ on one of the most enjoyable and creative, if difficult, setups the arena had seen to date for an F4U jockey. And even then, one or two persistant complainers from the Axis side had the F4U removed from play. IIRC, the staffer who designed and oversaw that setup and who gave in to Axis player demands to remove the F4U cited "Allied player abuse of the design." VF-17 flew the rest of the sutup that week, in spite of what once was considered by them to be actually a preferred enviroment to the MA (even with the pain of ferrying F4Us to the fight) having been turned into yet one more AvA battle with no real place for VF-17.

I tried to be realistic. Hell, I served as staff in the CT. I *know* the playerbase, the planeset and the game design would make a VF-17 friendly setup in the AvA a rare occurance. And rarer it got. So rare you really never see it now. And I doubt the re-formed squad would get behind making the AvA the exception to their persona and flip VF-17 to become a dedicated Sentai for all pure pac sets (like we once even considered - way back). Members of AH's virtual VF-17 squadron joined it because they were fans of either/both the Corsair and/or the historical squadron.

So my frustration with many player created difficulties in the AvA is a long and ... frankly ... tiresome one. There's always been potential there but, unfortunately, I discovered that players who really feel the desire to experience historical immersion in AH (like me) are actually rarer than I previously imagined. Even the ones who claim to like it until it presents too much of a personal challenge or presents too much of a threat to what surfaces as their true main concern - winning the boardgame or having admirable gaming scores, are the exception to the overall community example. (Those who read anything personal into that probably have reason to take it that way, even though it's really a blanket statement covering the entire AvA community.)

I've decided to stop spending a great deal of my time fostering the AvA for now. I wish the current group of staffers and the current dedicated player base the best of luck and I will be stopping in to play from time to time. But VF-17 is (and always was meant to be) a dedicated AHII F4Ua1 Navy squadron created for players who want to enjoy, as much as the game allows, a virtual version of it's namesake. Ironically, the AvA (and it's predecessor the CT) hasn't provided but three memorable instances of that in the five (broken) years of experience I've had there. Sadly (and, honestly it blows my mind to admit this), the MA actually gives my squadron a better chance to enjoy this game ... as VF-17 "The Jolly Rogers" ... even if it's over a map shaped like a uterus and against Russian LA7s and US P-51s (well more P-39s this month).  This isn't a protest, it's an awakening. Like I said, I'm a realist. There will never be a practical method of making the AvA a home for VF-17. I think I'd have better luck trying to convince HiTech that TOD/CT needs a Pacific version. :salute :)




Offline E25280

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Re: arena setups
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2008, 09:39:51 AM »
PTOs are unpopular because allies dont like to leave thier CV ack. That and they always come in at 10k above the fight so they can run back to thier CVs when they get someone on thier butt.
I think that is so common because of the annoying fact that CVs can come within four feet (minor exaggeration) of the shore.  If a PTO set up is to have any chance at working, the carriers have to be restricted to being a more realistic distance off shore so that 1) the fields can't be camped by the 5" guns and 2) the allieds have to venture out of their ack-shield if they want a capture.
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Offline Larry

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Re: arena setups
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2008, 09:46:06 AM »
I think that is so common because of the annoying fact that CVs can come within four feet (minor exaggeration) of the shore. 


Its funny you say this. I dont know if it was a map in the bug or what, but Iv seen a CV so close to shore that when it turned one of the DDs went on land.
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Offline Grits

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Re: arena setups
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2008, 10:25:35 AM »
The PTO setups have a problem that can not be fixed, even with every IJA/IJN plane modeled. Very early, Midway to Guadalcanal, the setups are pretty close with the Japanese maybe having an advantage. The problem is after that and until the Ki84 and the late war rare planes come along, the Japanese have a huge performance gap to the Allies. The Ki84 is the first plane that closes the gap, but even it is not enough. Mid war, right when VF-17 and VMF-214 made their history, the Allies aircraft are utterly and completely dominant. Its not something HTC or the AvA staff can fix because its a result of the Japanese not building good enough planes.

Translate that to the AvA and what you have is 3/4 of the Pacific war flying for the Japanese is an exercise in dodging BnZ passes. Its boring and as a result the setups are poorly attended.

It pains me to say that because from the Guadalcanal landing to end of the fighting in the Solomans in early '44 is my favorite part of the war to study.

Offline Easyscor

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Re: arena setups
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2008, 01:02:28 PM »
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Today anyway. :)
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Offline Arlo

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Re: arena setups
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2008, 01:34:19 PM »
Grits - The voice of reason, understanding and enlightenment.

Today anyway. :)

How come you understand him so well and not me at all? ;)

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: arena setups
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2008, 04:37:52 PM »
Anyone who whines about the F4u when the Ki84 is available is a wussy. :P

Still, let's have a semi-historical setup in the AvA arena, please?!?  :pray
gavagai
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