Author Topic: VF-17 doesn't live here anymore  (Read 4689 times)

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
VF-17 doesn't live here anymore
« on: March 23, 2008, 09:31:29 AM »
This was posted in another thread meant to be a response to Grits regarding setups but as I was writing it, it morphed more into an epiphany, of sorts. So, without further ado:

I've traditionally supported additions to the IJ planeset to bring in more opposition players in a Pac setup. But, to be honest, if an F4U fan, like me, is to see his ride featured in the AvA on more than a rare occurance, HTC would have to model the rarest of late war IJ aircraft (if what I hear most often cited by the playerbase is correct). That's something HT and co are loathe to do for two reasons. First, the smaller player base of Pac war oriented players and secondly their stated desire (with some exceptions, now and again) to model the more commonly used equipment from the war over the more "exotic" and rare.

I think the closest we ever came to having a pure Pac setup that provided something for all fans of that theater was one where we set the Axis side to have pretty much access to every IJ plane modeled off of every island they had a base on and with one additional IJ fleet (cruiser flagship, I believe) and the Allies side to have nothing but the earlier planeset (both US and British - USN, RAAF, USAAC) from the islands closest and the CVs and left the late-war set in a few limited fields further back This made encounters between IJ planes and late war Allied planes more rare and forced Allied players who preferred certain late-war rides to ferry their planes in and practice traditional tactics in their planes to survive.

The complaint that preceded the exodus of Axis pilots that week was that Allied players were doing just that. Ferrying F4Us to the battle, BnZing and ... omg *gasp* ... even refueling and rearming at Allied bases and ships to keep their late war ride in the fight! Eventually VF-17 had to fill in the gaps, switching to fly IJ on one of the most enjoyable and creative, if difficult, setups the arena had seen to date for an F4U jockey. And even then, one or two persistant complainers from the Axis side had the F4U removed from play. IIRC, the staffer who designed and oversaw that setup and who gave in to Axis player demands to remove the F4U cited "Allied player abuse of the design." VF-17 flew the rest of the sutup that week, in spite of what once was considered by them to be actually a preferred enviroment to the MA (even with the pain of ferrying F4Us to the fight) having been turned into yet one more AvA battle with no real place for VF-17.

I tried to be realistic. Hell, I served as staff in the CT. I *know* the playerbase, the planeset and the game design would make a VF-17 friendly setup in the AvA a rare occurance. And rarer it got. So rare you really never see it now. And I doubt the re-formed squad would get behind making the AvA the exception to their persona and flip VF-17 to become a dedicated Sentai for all pure pac sets (like we once even considered - way back). Members of AH's virtual VF-17 squadron joined it because they were fans of either/both the Corsair and/or the historical squadron.

So my frustration with many player created difficulties in the AvA is a long and ... frankly ... tiresome one. There's always been potential there but, unfortunately, I discovered that players who really feel the desire to experience historical immersion in AH (like me) are actually rarer than I previously imagined. Even the ones who claim to like it until it presents too much of a personal challenge or presents too much of a threat to what surfaces as their true main concern - winning the boardgame or having admirable gaming scores, are the exception to the overall community example. (Those who read anything personal into that probably have reason to take it that way, even though it's really a blanket statement covering the entire AvA community.)

I've decided to stop spending a great deal of my time fostering the AvA for now. I wish the current group of staffers and the current dedicated player base the best of luck and I will be stopping in to play from time to time. But VF-17 is (and always was meant to be) a dedicated AHII F4Ua1 Navy squadron created for players who want to enjoy, as much as the game allows, a virtual version of it's namesake. Ironically, the AvA (and it's predecessor the CT) hasn't provided but three memorable instances of that in the five (broken) years of experience I've had there. Sadly (and, honestly it blows my mind to admit this), the MA actually gives my squadron a better chance to enjoy this game ... as VF-17 "The Jolly Rogers" ... even if it's over a map shaped like a uterus and against Russian LA7s and US P-51s (well more P-39s this month).  This isn't a protest, it's an awakening. Like I said, I'm a realist. There will never be a practical method of making the AvA a home for VF-17. I think I'd have better luck trying to convince HiTech that TOD/CT needs a Pacific version. :salute :)

Offline Larry

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6123
Re: VF-17 doesn't live here anymore
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2008, 09:49:36 AM »
bye bye :rock




Does this mean you're homeless now?
Once known as ''TrueKill''.
JG 54 "Grünherz"
July '18 KOTH Winner


Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Re: VF-17 doesn't live here anymore
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2008, 09:53:11 AM »
bye bye :rock




Does this mean you're homeless now?

No, Larry. And it wasn't even aimed at you as an insult. That being the case, I'm glad you responded as maturely as you were capable of.  Keep up the good work and carry on the good fight. :) :salute

Offline Larry

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6123
Re: VF-17 doesn't live here anymore
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2008, 09:55:00 AM »
I didnt even read your post. Im just ganna wait for the movie to come out. I took from the title that you are leaving the AvA.
Once known as ''TrueKill''.
JG 54 "Grünherz"
July '18 KOTH Winner


Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Re: VF-17 doesn't live here anymore
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2008, 10:00:12 AM »
Well, as daunting an effort as it may appear, try reading the whole post before you respond. Then try responding to what the post is about. Or not. It really doesn't matter. I'm pretty satisfied with it, whatever your (or anyone else's) actual feedback is. I'm not gonna lie. I've enjoyed my time in the CT/AvA, for the most part. I've enjoyed both shooting down and being shot down by opponents there (you included) and winging with fellow players there (you included). But looking back on it all now, regarding making VF-17 a viable AHII squad, the AvA can't. If anything, it can only be a hindrance. Does this mean that I (or other Jolly Rogers) are never gonna fly there anymore? Nope. It means what it says. We just don't live there anymore. It'll be more the exception than the rule. *ShruG* Things change. Life goes on. I'm sure you're good with this, yeah? :)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 10:02:47 AM by Arlo »

Offline JagdTankker

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 306
Re: VF-17 doesn't live here anymore
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 10:02:52 AM »
Sorry to hear Arlo, but you are right on the money.
<<---chasing the flock of Seagulls-aka JG/11

Offline Larry

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6123
Re: VF-17 doesn't live here anymore
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2008, 10:10:54 AM »
Okay now what setup are you talking about?
Once known as ''TrueKill''.
JG 54 "Grünherz"
July '18 KOTH Winner


Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Re: VF-17 doesn't live here anymore
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2008, 10:27:02 AM »
Okay now what setup are you talking about?

Hell, TK. It was four years or so ago. The slot map. Entire IJ planeset. Allies had F4U-1s and P38s from 2 bases way back. F4Fs, P40bs, Bostons and TBMs at forward bases with the F4F and TBMs on the fleets. And the IJ players weren't hurting in the zekes all that much ... they were just frustrated because the hogs didn't turn 1v1 as much as they wanted.

Probably sticks out in my mind (like the "Second Wind" setup I promoted and designed) because ... well ... pac setups with the F4U were rare enough for me and meant enough to me for me to remember them.

Again, like I said, I'm a realist. There's no way the AvA can support such a setup on even a semi-regular basis. The player reaction alone killed it. My efforts to support a bigger/better IJ planeset was one of my methods to help see more late pac in the arena. But really, there's only so much HT can and/or will do there. And creative setups in that regard may get a luke-warm reception the first time around but are generally poo-pooed from then on.

The F4U1a really does live in a different arena in this game. VF-17 may have to sacrifice the terrain and opponent immersion but ... the plane just doesn't really make much of an appearance here. And, c'mon ... there's dedicated Luft squadrons (I believe JG54 used to be like this) that just didn't fly AvA when their rides weren't there. I got a squadron to look after. I'll still visit, bro. :)

Offline Larry

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6123
Re: VF-17 doesn't live here anymore
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2008, 10:36:26 AM »
And, c'mon ... there's dedicated Luft squadrons (I believe JG54 used to be like this) that just didn't fly AvA when their rides weren't there. I got a squadron to look after. I'll still visit, bro. :)

JG54 doesnt like PTO setups because of what I said in the other thread. Allied pilots hug thier CV ack and come in 10k hight then any axis bird so they can have the speed to run back to thier CV ack. The ONLY time I liked a PTO setup is when the CMs turned the ack setting down so low that you could land on the enemy cv and not worry abour dieing. That ment that all those people that ran to ack got what was coming to them when the enemy came in and didnt have to worry about getting a pilot wound or losing a wing from onw or two pings.
Once known as ''TrueKill''.
JG 54 "Grünherz"
July '18 KOTH Winner


Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Re: VF-17 doesn't live here anymore
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2008, 10:45:34 AM »
TK, I'm not promoting it anymore. I'm not slamming you or any other player that feels the way you do or actively objects to late pac setups under any rationalization. I spent a great deal of time forming the first post in this thread and I feel in adequately and, dare I say without looking like I'm bragging, eloquently said what it was designed to. It wasn't a debate. It was a shared realization. I'm too old to tilt and windmills, Sancho. :D

Offline sparow

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 579
      • http://249sqn.wordpress.com/
Re: VF-17 doesn't live here anymore
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2008, 11:15:37 AM »
Arlo,

I can't say how sorry I am to read your post but I understand entirely your decision. You're quite right all the way.

TK, OTOH, proves once more that is nothing but a grammar school bully. Still haven´t learned to read after all these years. Sad. Im my school, bullies didn't lasted long. But then, they were not hidded behind a firewall.

Sad, when all you have on the other side is this.

<Salute> Arlo, good luck to VF-17.

Regards,

Sparrow
Sparow
249 Sqn RAF "Gold Coast"
Consistently beeing shot down since Tour 33 (MA) and Tour 8  (CT/AvA)

Visit us at http://249sqn.wordpress.com/

Offline Shifty

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9377
      • 307th FS
Re: VF-17 doesn't live here anymore
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2008, 12:11:10 PM »
Arlo, hate to seee you go, again.
Good luck with VF-17, <S> Jolly Rogers.

JG-11"Black Hearts"...nur die Stolzen, nur die Starken

"Haji may have blown my legs off but I'm still a stud"~ SPC Thomas Vandeventer Delta1/5 1st CAV

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Re: VF-17 doesn't live here anymore
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2008, 12:22:14 PM »
And <S> to the 353rd! Historical squadrons always have a special place in my heart. It's fine for the ones that are less so and have fun (maybe even make fun) doing it but AHII has been my choice of escape to my grandfather's war and Blackburn and company's exploits.  :cool:

Offline Larry

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6123
Re: VF-17 doesn't live here anymore
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2008, 12:50:09 PM »
TK, OTOH, proves once more that is nothing but a grammar school bully. Still haven´t learned to read after all these years. Sad. Im my school, bullies didn't lasted long. But then, they were not hidded behind a firewall.



Yep.


You're just made because you get beat up by me all the time.

Not knowing how to read and not wanting to read are two different things. I did'nt feel like reading a book about how he cant fly his F4Us because theres never PTO setups. That whole page could have been said in three or four sentences.
Once known as ''TrueKill''.
JG 54 "Grünherz"
July '18 KOTH Winner


Offline Easyscor

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10899
Re: VF-17 doesn't live here anymore
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2008, 12:51:36 PM »
I can't disagree with anything you've posted Arlo, I much prefer the Allied rides, especially when it comes to bombers, but you knew the situation coming back into the AvA after being a staff member. That's why, as very eloquent as your post is, the reasoning is difficult to understand. You knew coming in, that the F4U wasn't likely to see the availability needed to support a squad based on it because of balance issues in an uncontrolled arena like the AvA. It's as if you're hoping to drum up support to persuade the staff to make it available by posting this.

I think its an understandable wish to fly the same aircraft your grandfather flew, but a more reasonable approach would be to pick a ride that will see frequent use in the AvA and build an AvA squad around that particular ride. That's what most everyone else has to do.
Easy in-game again.
Since Tour 19 - 2001