Barney Fife Works For US Air?

[Toad]

I never hit rough air that could pull the trigger on a pistol, especially a trigger that was on a holstered gun.

IIRC, my buds that are in the FFDO program said the gun has to be holstered until drawn for use.

I'm sorry but there isn't a way for an HK USP40 Compact – LEM to go off without the trigger being pulled. Not rough air, not coriolis effect, not a sudden shift into a different astral plane... nope... someone or something has to pull the trigger and that just doesn't happen to a properly holstered pistol.

[Maverick]

I have no idea

This is really the crux of your position here. You don't know. There isn't enough info released yet to know. You have no idea if the safety was on or off. Don't let that stand in the way of your assumptions however.

If you think that the weapon will discharge all by itself in it's holster you lack a basic understanding of how it works.

[rpm]

I never hit rough air that could pull the trigger on a pistol, especially a trigger that was on a holstered gun.

IIRC, my buds that are in the FFDO program said the gun has to be holstered until drawn for use.

I'm sorry but there isn't a way for an HK USP40 Compact – LEM to go off without the trigger being pulled.

That's a bold statement. But, will you dispute that if there was no round in the chamber it would make it exponentially harder for it to happen?

[Toad]

It's bold but true. Did you know that Glocks with similar internal safties have the highest rate of accidental (read "negligent") discharge amongst the various police forces?

Partially this is because an awful lot of PD's use Glocks.

But to my knowledge, and I've done some research, they have never been able to prove a Glock went off for any other reason except that the trigger was pulled. Can't drop them and make them go off, can't stare hard at them and make them go off, can't shake them and make them go off..well, you get the idea.

Now, are you also aware that a significant percentage of ND's occur when a round is being chambered? Probably the most common action that generates an unintended discharge. Think about that.

I will however concede that even an HK with a self-aware, living firing pin cannot fire an empty chamber.

Now all you have to do is get the TSA to change the rules for the FFDO program and direct the pilots to carry empty-chambered pistols. Then when some looney crashes through the cockpit door and catches the guy frantically trying to chamber a round, we can change the rule back.

[Toad]

You have no idea if the safety was on or off. 

Mav, the only gun the FFDO's are allowed to carry is the issue HK USP40 Compact – Law Enforcement Modification. It has no external safety.

[Maverick]

Ah but Toad, RPM said the safety was off in his earlier post. You know, the one where he was saying the gun would go off by itself.

[Mr No Name]

THIS is one reason I only carry revolvers.  I do own a .40, a .380 and .45 ACP auto though

[Toad]

What would that reason be?

[Mr No Name]

Revolvers are safer by nature of their design.   PLEASE listen - I am NOT saying autos are unsafe - just that revolvers are a better choice for me and those who I know have limited experience with guns.

[rpm]

Ah but Toad, RPM said the safety was off in his earlier post. You know, the one where he was saying the gun would go off by itself.

Well Mav, to be fair I was replying to Toad that the safety was on. You need to nail Toad for saying the guy was playing with the gun when it went off as well. At this point none of us know and we are all speculating what happened.

My point is empty chamber, no discharge. That's a basic gun safety point.

[Toad]

I've got both as well. As it happens, I favor a revolver for carry.

However, that's not because it is safer. The newer (Glock, M&P, XD) loaded autos are exactly like a loaded revolver in that they will fire every time you pull the trigger.

The difference is the chance of a mechanical failure to chamber/fire the second round is a little higher with an auto than a revolver.

As for safety, I see no significant difference between the internal safety pistols and the revolvers.

YMMV.

[Toad]

My point is empty chamber, no discharge. That's a basic gun safety point.

My point is no trigger pull on an HK USP40 LEM, no discharge. That's a basic fact of how the gun operates.

So, no trigger movement, no discharge. Kind of hard to pull the trigger if no one is handling it.

[bcadoo]

.....

My point is empty chamber, no discharge. That's a basic gun safety point.

Actually, the bullets can still go off even if not chambered, all you need is contact with the primer.  However if it not chambered there is nothing to direct the force and you basically have a tiny grenade with minimal damage.  (happend to a friend of my who thought he had loaded a dud.....it wasn't)

[rpm]

You just can't admit if there was no round in the chamber this incident would not have happened, can you?

[Maverick]

RPM,

An empty chamber on a weapon to be used in extremis is a bad idea. You may think it will take a half second to make the weapon ready but from actual experiance I can tell you that it will take about a second to even draw it from a holster if they are smart enough to use one that can be accessed while seated and belted in. Now take an individual who is not highly trained and doesn't have a reasonable expectation of facing the use of the weapon every day and you are likely to have someone who will bobble the action trying to chamber a round. It also takes 2 hands to do so and that might be awkward if he is hand flying at the time.

IMO this will be a case of a pilot who was doing something they shouldn't have been doing at the time.