Barney Fife Works For US Air?

[lazs2]

If you had to carry semi autos with the chamber empty they would be about 10 times less useful than the worst revolver.   

Do you guys think cops carry their glocks or even 1911's with an empty chamber?

The only way a modern handgun will fire is if the trigger is pulled.  If it fires any other way it is a major malfunction.

and..  accidents will happen... in all this time it has only been one on an airliner.. the net result was..  no harm at all... mostly... unless their was extreme bad luck.. that is the result you would expect.   In most accidental discharges.. the result is no harm.

The reason for most of these discharges with the new breed of semiautos is that they have a relatively short trigger travel to make em useful in what is, in essence, a double action only design... the trigger is relatively light as well.. 

What then happens is that the semi auto guy puts his finger in the trigger guard before he wants to shoot the gun.. the gun doesn't know he doesn't want to shoot tho.  It only knows that someone is pressing on its trigger..  bang.

Finally... it matters not to me.. just like accidental discharges by cops don't make me want to disarm cops.. This does not make me want to disarm pilots.   Bet the guy never does it again.

lazs

[Toad]

Just for fun check out CNN's internet piece today on the Air Marshal program. Less than 1% of flights covered daily, significant attrition in the Air Marshal ranks without replacements.... the sizzle not the steak.

Feel safer now? I think I predicted this back in 2001. There's not really much more air transport security now than there was then.

[Shamus]

Flaps? Yup. Do we have clearance Clarence? Roger Roger.Hows my vector Victor? Gear down?Yup. Well looks like a good round trip.Round?let me check.Snick BLAM           oops.

 

Doc you slay me.

shamus

[Maverick]

RPM,


Others have already confirmed what I told you in my post. Your apology is accepted.

[GtoRA2]

Wow RPM, you should go to some of those "NRA" classes again..... maybe find the one not run buy the one liberal in the NRA

Just go to an HK board and tell them the USP can fire without a trigger pull and watch the flames!

[Charon]

But, what does a bunch of liberal gun haters like the NRA know about guns anyway.

Hey! Lets not start one of those GOA vs NRA flame wars here.

Charon

[Stringer]

RPM,

An empty chamber on a weapon to be used in extremis is a bad idea. You may think it will take a half second to make the weapon ready but from actual experiance I can tell you that it will take about a second to even draw it from a holster if they are smart enough to use one that can be accessed while seated and belted in. Now take an individual who is not highly trained and doesn't have a reasonable expectation of facing the use of the weapon every day and you are likely to have someone who will bobble the action trying to chamber a round. It also takes 2 hands to do so and that might be awkward if he is hand flying at the time.

IMO this will be a case of a pilot who was doing something they shouldn't have been doing at the time.

Mav,
You very elegantly made the case for those who oppose guns in the cockpit....

[Toad]

 Because we sure don't need armed FFDO's when we've got all those Sky Marshals covering... uh... well... less than 1% of our flights. 

[Stringer]

Toad,
I don't care if they are armed or not......so you can save the sarcasm for somebody else.

Carry if they want...don't carry if they want....

But like our mothers used to tell us....you'll put your eye out, kid...there's always some idiots that prove the rule...

 

[Toad]

I think I did Stringer. It's directed at those who oppose guns in the cockpit. Since you are apparently not one of those it was directed at someone else.

Having a bad day?

[Stringer]

Yep....sry....assumed there...you know what that makes me 

[Maverick]

Stringer,

I wasn't trying to make a point about not arming the pilots at all. I am very much in favor of it in fact. That does not change the fact that if they choose to be armed they may not make the best choice in holster. Couple that with the fact that they are flying first and defending second in normal priority, they may need more time to draw than quick draw RPM seems to need to draw and rack the slide. That was my entire point. Frankly speaking I had a fairly fast draw for a "street" style holster and it would take me more than a half second to get on target without racking the slide in competition.

I don't expect an armed pilot to be the best line of defense, I expect them to be the very last line of defense in keeping control of the aircraft. The passengers are now the front line.

[rpm]

Letterman had a great Top10 on it tonight.
A few of my favorites:

That's what happens when you let Dick Cheney fly a commercial plane. What did you expect?

The pilot misunderstood the towers instructions of "your clear to land" for "Hey fire off a few rounds".

You want gun safety? Fly United!

[SOB]

Just for fun check out CNN's internet piece today on the Air Marshal program. Less than 1% of flights covered daily, significant attrition in the Air Marshal ranks without replacements.... the sizzle not the steak.

Feel safer now? I think I predicted this back in 2001. There's not really much more air transport security now than there was then.

Bag most of the new security measures and cockpit cowboys and I'd still feel plenty safe... and a lot less inconvenienced.  The reinforced doors were a good idea, I think.  I'm sure there are a couple of others that were good too.  Getting crazy over some shampoo or nail clippers or little scissors or a lighter or making me take off my shoes or putting guns in the hands of folks who may or may not have any business handling a firearm... is retarded and expensive and doesn't make me feel any safer.

[gpwurzel]

You'd be surprised how much damage you can do with relatively small, sharp implements (Carotid artery etc immediately spring to mind - and while it takes up to a couple of mins, unless you happen to get immediate medical help, your basically stuffed)

Binary explosives (two parts) can be concealed as a liquid, gel (shampoo, water etc). Combine them, add an appropriate detonator - your stuffed

Shoes and lighters are courtesy of that numbskull Richard Reid (Shoebomber) - would you take chances?

Personally, I feel safer knowing there is someone onboard armed - that said, I'd feel even safer if I was armed (errrrr, maybe). Accidents happen - not knowing much about these weapons, i'm not saying nowt lol.

Was he playing with it - possible.
Did it catch on something - possible (but unlikely imo)(and without knowing holster configuration I'm pretty much guessing)
Would it have fired if trigger had not been pulled - nope
Is it useful to have any weapon "for immediate use" with an empty chamber - nope - I was taught to carry with a full mag, one up, ready to go. Mind, I was also taught good gun control etc.

Just my 0.001p worth,

Wurzel