Author Topic: realistic speeds  (Read 1350 times)

Offline E25280

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3475
      • http://125thspartanforums.com
Re: realistic speeds
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2008, 08:02:34 PM »
I can hardly image how "speeds of approach" can be unrealistic :rolleyes:
Somebody really need a math.

At the risk of proving that I speak Tard . . .

The closing speed of any fighter in this game and, say, a box of three B-17s is, in fact, too slow.  The reason has nothing to do with the fighter, but rather has everything to do with the bombers. 

Bombers during the war flew at cruising speeds that were often 80-100 mph slower than their top speed.  They did this to maximize range, maximize the life of the engines, and to make flying in tight formation safer and easier.  They did not routinely increase speed when attacked by fighters, either.  They remained large, slow targets.

In AH there is no such need to maximize the life or range of your box of bombers.  So, the bombers fly with the throttle firewalled -- and therefore at speeds far in excess of what the real life interceptors had to deal with.  They are still large targets, but not nearly as slow.

Thus the original poster's complaint about closing speeds.  Unlike the bombers, interceptors most certainly would firewall the throttle so as to minimize the time inside the bomber's gunner's range -- thus closing speeds were much higher than you typically see in AH.


My personal opinion is that bombers are easy enough targets as it is, and there is no need to 'dumb down' their speed overall.  I have, however, advocated truing up the speeds of the drones, i.e. take away their ability to "overspeed" and catch up to your lead bomber if you start to leave them behind.  Make the lead bomber slow down so the drones can catch up.  This will have the overall effect of making the bombers slow down when they want to maximize their firepower with a tight box, and make those "closing speeds" more realistic (even if only slightly).
Brauno in a past life, followed by LTARget
SWtarget in current incarnation
Captain and Communications Officer~125th Spartans

"Proudly drawing fire so that my brothers may pass unharmed."

Offline Oleg

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1000
Re: realistic speeds
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2008, 07:03:54 AM »
Dont think he mean this initially. It more like "I flew teh l33t me262 at 500mph, freaking gunners shouldnt ever see me before death leave alone shoot at me!!!" whine. I can be wrong though.

btw, im all for force bombers to fly at cruising speed, but looks like HTC have other opinion.
"If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. Don't complain."
Maya Angelou

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
Re: realistic speeds
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2008, 12:49:08 PM »
E25280,

Depending on the angle of approach that can make the closing speeds faster than historical as well.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline DPQ5

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 425
Re: realistic speeds
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2008, 01:54:59 AM »
maker of thread is just mad cause a bomber shot down his poor 262 :aok
29th Infantry Division
Darkest Hour Realism Unit
King Company
Sgt. Phillips

Offline uberslet

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 873
Re: realistic speeds
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2008, 05:49:33 AM »
I am sure many WW2 gunners said the same thing Uberslet.

Strip(er)
thats what im saying! the 262 and 163 pilots were ACES HAND SELECTED to FLY THEM. so the pilots in the 262/163 are going to have a better chance of hitting in theory.  and its not the point of "O...i have been killed many times from bombers in a 262". its the point of how hits did a 262/163 have in relation to the bombers on THEM. 



   maybe what i had been asking wasnt really that clear. maybe the people reading the post wernt trying to think on my level. what ever reason it may be that people didnt understand what im trying to say, it just seems odd that its so convienant, ill be doing 500 in my 262, ill dive on the buff, and it seems like an eternity before i get to a range of 400 so i can shoot. and its ironic how in shows the speed seems so much faster. i mean, u figure your going 2 times the speed of the buff at 500MPH, dont you think that the speed for closing would seem a little faster?
MasonZ - In-game ID
=Wings of Terror= - MA Squad
"Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23949
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: realistic speeds
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2008, 05:50:50 AM »
thats what im saying! the 262 and 163 pilots were ACES HAND SELECTED to FLY THEM. so the pilots in the 262/163 are going to have a better chance of hitting in theory.  and its not the point of "O...i have been killed many times from bombers in a 262". its the point of how hits did a 262/163 have in relation to the bombers on THEM. 



   maybe what i had been asking wasnt really that clear. maybe the people reading the post wernt trying to think on my level. what ever reason it may be that people didnt understand what im trying to say, it just seems odd that its so convienant, ill be doing 500 in my 262, ill dive on the buff, and it seems like an eternity before i get to a range of 400 so i can shoot. and its ironic how in shows the speed seems so much faster. i mean, u figure your going 2 times the speed of the buff at 500MPH, dont you think that the speed for closing would seem a little faster?

The key word is "seems".
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

In November 2025, Lusche will return for a 20th anniversary tour. Get your tickets now!

Offline FrodeMk3

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2481
Re: realistic speeds
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2008, 06:37:40 AM »
At the risk of proving that I speak Tard . . .

The closing speed of any fighter in this game and, say, a box of three B-17s is, in fact, too slow.  The reason has nothing to do with the fighter, but rather has everything to do with the bombers. 

Bombers during the war flew at cruising speeds that were often 80-100 mph slower than their top speed.  They did this to maximize range, maximize the life of the engines, and to make flying in tight formation safer and easier.  They did not routinely increase speed when attacked by fighters, either.  They remained large, slow targets.

In AH there is no such need to maximize the life or range of your box of bombers.  So, the bombers fly with the throttle firewalled -- and therefore at speeds far in excess of what the real life interceptors had to deal with.  They are still large targets, but not nearly as slow.

Thus the original poster's complaint about closing speeds.  Unlike the bombers, interceptors most certainly would firewall the throttle so as to minimize the time inside the bomber's gunner's range -- thus closing speeds were much higher than you typically see in AH.


My personal opinion is that bombers are easy enough targets as it is, and there is no need to 'dumb down' their speed overall.  I have, however, advocated truing up the speeds of the drones, i.e. take away their ability to "overspeed" and catch up to your lead bomber if you start to leave them behind.  Make the lead bomber slow down so the drones can catch up.  This will have the overall effect of making the bombers slow down when they want to maximize their firepower with a tight box, and make those "closing speeds" more realistic (even if only slightly).


A very good point, there.

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: realistic speeds
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2008, 04:12:39 PM »
Bombers historically flew at cruise speeds. In this game they fly at MAX speed 99.999999999% of the time. The other .0000000001% of the time they're at 99% throttle to let other bombers stay in formation with them.

Very unhistorical.


The end result? B-17s at 23k-ish in THIS game are only 30mph slower than FW190A8s. Historically? FW190A8s had over 100mph closure rates.


It doesn't matter what your first pass is, unless you're in one of the fastest top 10 planes in the game, your second pass will be a rear-aspect tail chase because of the bomber forward speed.

Even Combat Tour is going to have the bombers flying at REALISTIC speeds, more historic cruise speeds.

If they flew like the MA bombers? You couldn't begin to imagine the uproar from both sides.

Oh, and the bombers would fall out of the sky right after dropping due to fuel starvation -- but that's not too different from the bomb-n-bail we see anyways.

Offline 2bighorn

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2829
Re: realistic speeds
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2008, 05:11:37 PM »
In this game they fly at MAX speed 99.999999999% of the time.

They don't.