Author Topic: p-38  (Read 548 times)

Offline EvlPrsn

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p-38
« on: March 26, 2008, 08:15:49 PM »
looking for some1 to help me learn the fork-tailed devil  ^_^

I have the same tag ingame as on the the forums, contact me by ur method of choice.

i live in Texas so reasonable times for this zone would be helpful.

thanks in advance!
If i said anything to offend u, plz ignore it.

also, if i say anything stupid or rude, it was probobly too late at night and i was half asleep, so ignore that too.

oh yeah, its all just my opinion, so if ya dont care, just keep it to urself, cuz if u dont care, i sure wont!

Offline uberslet

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Re: p-38
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2008, 08:17:29 PM »
See Rule #2
« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 11:11:07 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline EvlPrsn

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Re: p-38
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2008, 08:30:43 PM »
Anybody got help to offer, or am i just going to get spammed?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 08:32:33 PM by EvlPrsn »
If i said anything to offend u, plz ignore it.

also, if i say anything stupid or rude, it was probobly too late at night and i was half asleep, so ignore that too.

oh yeah, its all just my opinion, so if ya dont care, just keep it to urself, cuz if u dont care, i sure wont!

Offline mensa180

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Re: p-38
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2008, 08:45:59 PM »
I would suggest talking to Silat or Murdr about a TA session, also if you want to fly around with some 38 jocks you're welcome to tune 138 in the arenas, we don't bite...much :)
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Offline uberslet

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Re: p-38
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2008, 08:48:05 PM »
MasonZ - In-game ID
=Wings of Terror= - MA Squad
"Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato

Offline EvlPrsn

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Re: p-38
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2008, 08:48:38 PM »
138 text, vox, or both?
If i said anything to offend u, plz ignore it.

also, if i say anything stupid or rude, it was probobly too late at night and i was half asleep, so ignore that too.

oh yeah, its all just my opinion, so if ya dont care, just keep it to urself, cuz if u dont care, i sure wont!

Offline mensa180

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Re: p-38
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2008, 08:58:11 PM »
Both.
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Offline HighGTrn

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Re: p-38
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2008, 01:02:33 PM »
I just started learning it myself.  I suggest you look back into some recent posts in this forum and you'll see some pretty good stuff.  Donkey has several great write ups.  The biggest advice I can give you (and it has nothing to do with flying the 38) is forget about score, check your ego at the door and don't look at getting killed as a bad thing.  Once you do all this, you wont be afraid of engaging people.

I'm still getting killed but not as nearly as much as when I started the 38s a month ago.  In fact, I find that most 1v1 fights I'm in, I win.  Its always the other guy coming down and killing me after I just dispatched someone.  I got this far with a lot of advice and support from S.A.P.P

Keep up'in! :salute
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Offline DoNKeY

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Re: p-38
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2008, 06:52:31 PM »
Here's a little write up that I did a little while ago.  It covers some of the basics, and much of this I have gathered from reading other great posts by other great 38 drivers.  I'm still comparatively new to the game, but this has for the most part worked for me, but it's by no means the "end all," or whatever you want to call it.

Other then that, hook up with the 80th/SAPP on 138 text and vox and everyone will be willing to help you out.  Also get with a good trainer that knows the 38.  Murdr and WideWing come to mind there.  There's others, and I would name them, but I would obviously do others a great injustice by not naming them. :aok

Ahh, sorry for the eventual triple guys, but character limit is killing me. :)
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Offline DoNKeY

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Re: p-38
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2008, 06:56:30 PM »
Here's my first part, more will be coming later.  Keep in mind that I am relatively new to the game, and still suck horribly Hehe!, but this is what I have gained through my experience in flying the 38 in and among some of the best guys in the game and some of the best 38 sticks in the game.  I am in no way a good/great stick, but I like to think that I can hold my own most of the time.  Ok here we go...

The Lightning is a “strange” aircraft to say the least…  As you’ve seen, it’s not an aircraft that just clicks as soon as you get into it.  It’s actually one of the harder planes in the game to “master.”  That’s because the 38 doesn’t have that one ability that you can utilize against other rides.

For example, the pony and La both have speed, the 109 has its climb, and the spits/zero has its turn radius… you get it.  The 38’s greatest strength is that it has no weakness;  it does everything ok.  It’s greatest weakness though is that it doesn’t have any one great ability; it just does everything ok.  That is why it’s such a hard plane to fly efficiently, you’re always (well, most likely) up against someone who has a distinct advantage over you, and if they’re good, they’ll utilize that against you.  The “secret” to the 38 is knowing how you stack up against the plane you come up against, and then using each and everyone of your ok/average abilities to overcome your opponent, especially if they are trying to dictate the fight around their one great ability.  You also have to know when and where to use each ability.

The 38 really isn’t a cut and dry plane, like others are.  The pony is mainly a BnZ type plane; a zeke is a TnB.  In the 38 you need to BnZ, TnB, and then combine them, ultimately in the goal of developing a very good E fighting game.  You have to be able to switch between various “roles” as the situation calls for, because as we’ve seen, the 38 isn’t suited for one flat out type of style.  Having a very solid grasp on BFM, and then stringing that together depending on the situation for ACM, is also key.  This is because while being average at say turning, the 38 can “outturn” better turning rides.  For example, if you engage a N1KI, and it starts flat turning, using consecutive high and low yo-yo’s will eventually allow you to gain angles on him, and an eventual shot, effectively allowing you to “outturn” him.  There are also times when you can out turn a better turning aircraft when you are both flat turning.  It’s dependent on your E state relative to him.  If you’re at your corner velocity, and he’s not, you might just have the E and better turn rate to turn inside of him for a shot.  This is where being able to read an opponents E state comes into play, and in a 38, that’s very important.  Strong Situational Awareness is also key in a 38.  A 38 has a very big full profile.  It’s HUGE.  This, combined with the fact that most people view 38’s as just being used on porking missions, and that their pilots can’t really fight, makes people seek you out, almost as much as P-40’s.  One of my goals when I first started in a 38 was to try to become good enough so as to help get this stereotype away from 38’s, so that when people would come across a lone 38, they would thing twice about just blinding diving in.  But enough of this, you want to know the secrets of the 38 right?  Cool

Well, sadly there aren’t any “secrets,” or else I would be a MUCH better pilot then I am now Cool.  At best, there are only guidelines and suggestions, as each and every encounter is unique and different.  There is no one “move” that will automatically win you the fight or save your but each time you get into trouble, but there are things that you can do to help increase your chances at winning a fight and surviving.


The following are some of the things that I feel are especially important when flying around in a 38.

Looping:   The 38 LOVES to loop.  Without torque, that means you are rock steady at the top, especially at lower speeds.  Use this to your advantage-gaining angles and keeping someone off your six.  Use that last notch or two of flaps when coming over the top of loops to really get you down (I’ll talk a little more about flaps latter).  A variation of a loop that is really critical to get down in the 38 is a stall loop.  Basically, its half a loop and half a stall, usually/most of the time done at lower speeds.  When coming over the top of a loop, your speed is low enough to the point where you stall your aircraft.  Because of the 38 having no torque, your nose just DROPS, and I mean drops down, and you’re instantly back into control.  This allows you to get over the top and facing back down quickly, which allows to you lose someone or gain angles quickly as they are either below you, or trying to follow you through a loop all the while fighting their torque and trying not to stall/spin at those low speeds.  (Side Note:  Going back to the strengths of the 38, if it did have one that it held over the majority of the plane set, it would be the no torque, which allows it to perform beautifully in the vertical, or when flat turning on the deck at stall speeds).

Throttle/Rudder/WEP:  The J (what I fly) and the L both have 5 minutes of WEP.  That’s the standard in AHII.  Only German rides beat you out. I believe, so don’t quote me, that it’s two seconds off of WEP for each second gained back.  Basic rule though is don’t waste your WEP getting to the battle.  This means in transit, because you’ll need in in combat.  As for the throttle, proper work of it (as in most planes) is important.  You can’t just have it open the whole fight.  There are plenty of times when you will need to back off of it.  For example, when I get into rolling scissors, lots of times I find myself backing off the throttle for a second or two, just to keep my speed in check.  This allows me to not have to much speed over my opponent.  Infact, I cut my throttle so they get faster and so they get out in front of me. Also, when in a dive, sometimes you’ll want to back off the throttle so as not to buffet/let you speed build up to much.  Contrary to popular belief, getting fast in a dive in a 38 really isn’t that much of a problem.  Under 20000 feet, where you’ll be fighting most of the time, you will not compress 99% of the time.  You’ll feel you’re controls start to tighten up, but as long as you have trim mapped handy, you’ll be good.  I regularly get speeds up to 450/500 and rarely use trim to get out.  Just cut throttle and use rudders to bleed speed as necessary.  The only negative effect you will see in the J from these fight speeds is a very bad roll rate.  Rudders.  Rudders are very important in a 38.  From getting that last second front quarter shot in to helping in controlling your speed.  The single most important thing about using rudders in a 38 for me (besides gunnery) is in assisting in your roll.  38’s have never been known for their roll, infact its among some of the worst.  Use rudder in the direction of your roll to help increase it.  This will allow you to help stay in phase with someone you’re following, or help you get out of phase when someone is one your six. 


Flaps: Flaps are something that you’re going to have to get familiar with.  The 38 needs and loves them, but they can also hurt you by sapping your E.  The flaps on the 38 will suck you dry of E.  Because of this, you never want to leave them out longer then you have to.  Sorry that I can’t be more specific on when to and not to use them though.  That is something that you’ll have to develop by just getting into a lot of fights with a 38 and using flaps.  Eventually it will become second nature, and you’ll know when to drop them, and then whether to keep them out or suck them in.  Just keep in mind that the 38 does benefit from them, and does need them, so don’t be afraid to drop them when you think you need them, it’s not going to totally screw you over if you keep them out forever, it will just make things harder.  Another place the 38 excels at, and needs its flaps when doing, is a low speed spiral climb.  Full flaps, with WEP, the 38 can spiral climb at very slow speeds, because of it not having to fight torque.  I’ve been in many situations where I’m spiral climbing under 100 mph with a enemy 200 off my six, but they just can’t quite get their nose up on me.  They’re fighting torque, and eventually they’re going to either shoot under me because their forward speed is greater then mine and I’m climbing over them, or they are going to stall out trying to pull up into to high of a AoA for a shot on me.  Use this to your advantage, as this leads into using the vertical.


Using the Vertical: The vertical is where the 38 really excels against other opponents, because it does not have to fight torque like single engine fighters do.  Loops, spiral climbs, and yo-yo’s will help you to conserve E, while playing into the 38’s strengths, and most likely the enemy’s weakness (torque/ bad climb/ etc).  Roping once into a fight is one of my main tactics against people, and while I do get caught, more often then not, people underestimate the 38’s zoom or its ability to hang in the vert, and they end up under me and my guns, which, if it weren’t for my horrible aim, would be very bad for them.  Just be careful though, unless you are certain you’re just fighting that one opponent and you know his E and yours, don’t hang to much, as you might need to dodge an incoming new threat, or abort a rope or whatever if you see your opponent has more E then you.  While being incredible solid at low speeds/high AoA, the 38 still isn’t going to just magically maneuver away from someone who decides to pick you.


donkey

Continued below because of character limit.
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Offline DoNKeY

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Re: p-38
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2008, 06:59:19 PM »
Here’s some more general thoughts/tips on the 38.

Fuel Most of your sorties will be with either be 50% with or without DT or 75% with or without DT.  Take 25% if you’re upping out of a CAPed base in order to try and break it.  25 gives you about 9 minutes.  I take just 50 if the fight is close to base or within the sector.  50 and a DT if I have to travel a little before the fight.  I take 75 only as a substitute for 50 and a DT if I think I’ll be traveling to the fight and plan on staying a little.  Basically I do it so as to lose the drag form the DT.  75 and a DT is for when we decide to fly two sectors to start up a fight, and I plane on a somewhat long transit and hopefully staying in the area a long time.

Guns  Besides the 262’s quad 30 mm’s or any plane with quad 20 hizookas, I think the 38’s gun package is the most lethal in the game.  With 4 50’s and a 20mm hizooka, you’re set for tracking, snapshots, whatever.  Center lining means that it’s even that MUCH MORE LETHAL.  No convergence is necessary since they are on the centerline.  I set them to the max, as do other people, it’s really personal preference.  Take any shot you can get with the 50’s and add the 20 (I have a dual stage trigger) for snapshots, or close in shots).

Ords  The 38 has one of the best or packages in the game.  2k in bombs is available for all 38’s.  The G and J have six rockets available, but they are in tube rockets.  I only take the rockets in my J if I’m on a dedicated gv or town/field busting run.  The rocket tubes do cause drag, and therefore hurt you acceleration/climb/speed etc.  The L though does not have rocket tubes, and carries 10 rockets total, and therefore it the default ground pounder for most.

Views   Not much to say.  I find in general, that once you set your vies to eliminate the canopy bars, your views are pretty good.  Not Pony good, but up there.  I find the six view is pretty good to.  I’d rate it a 9 out of 10 with a pony six view being a 10.  Over the nose, and general forward views are pretty decent also.  Just remember to set your views to move the canopy bars out of view for your side and quarter shots, then you’ll be golden.

General Performance

Just a little general performance to show you how it stacks up.  Visit gonzogos (sorry butchered his name I know Cool ) site for better information on its stats.  In general, the 38 tends to stand out more and more against the competition as you get higher.

-Acceleration is alright down low.  Not great but not bad.  I’d rate it a little better then average.  Up in the skies, it’s actually one the better accelerators in the game.

-Climb isn’t to bad either.  You will out climb all other American rides.  Most German planes will out climb you, as will most spits.  La’s and the KI-84 along with the N1KI will give you some problems on the deck, but they’re performance, especially the LA drastically drops as you get higher.  As a general rule of thumb, if you’re faster then it, most of the time you can climb better.

-Speed really isn’t that great.  It’s faster then a Hurri mk 1 or an FM2, but with most of the planes you’ll meet in the late war arenas, you’ll be at the lower end of the speed chain.  WEP does help you out, but you’re still going to be slower then most.  It does get a lot better relative to most other rides as you get higher up, but most fights occur down low/on the deck.

-Dive has already been covered, but ask if you’ve got questions on it still.

-Maneuverability.  The 38 is heavy and big, but can still compete with most rides, especially because of it being very steady due to no torque.  I’d rate it above an above average turner, but that still doesn’t mean you should try to turn with everything you see.  Just fly a lot, and push the limits, and find out when and where you should attempt to turn with people.  NOTE:  Turn doesn’t just mean flat turn.  Turn in the vertical also.

-Landing is very easy in the 38 because of the tricycle carriage.  Combined with no torque, you can easily pull of landings that single engine fights would have some trouble with.   You also don’t need that much runway because you can come down full flaps, and be at low speeds without fear of torque turning you over.


Overall, the 38 is a very good all around fighter.  It’s got the range, payload, and ability to actually dogfight.  It’s going to be an aircraft that you’re going to have to devote yourself to though if you’re planning on trying to get good at it, which is why a lot of people are initially turned away from it.  But if you put in the time, get with trainers, and work on it, the 38 has all of the ingredients needed to allow you to become a great, all around pilot.  Just keep with it if you’re serious about the 38.  And most importantly have fun, that’s what it’s all about.   Thumbs UP! Thumbs UP!

donkey
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Offline EvlPrsn

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Re: p-38
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2008, 07:12:07 PM »
yeah, i read that in ur other post donkey, wut i reli need is to head to the TA with a trainer, and fly with ya'll in the MA.  right now i'm flying with a squad on the bishops, and i'll keep text tuned to 138, and vox when i can.

thanks for the help and hope to c ya around.
If i said anything to offend u, plz ignore it.

also, if i say anything stupid or rude, it was probobly too late at night and i was half asleep, so ignore that too.

oh yeah, its all just my opinion, so if ya dont care, just keep it to urself, cuz if u dont care, i sure wont!

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: p-38
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2008, 07:18:40 PM »
Email Murdr. Not only is he a good trainer, hes not to bad a 38 jock   :lol

Offline goober69

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Re: p-38
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2008, 12:26:18 AM »
Email Murdr. Not only is he a good trainer, hes not to bad a 38 jock   :lol

 :O
one of the best

hope he isnt close to me and on the other team

 :noid :noid
flying as Marvin57
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  we band of brothers;"
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