WB to AH ?

[Xander]

The following is NOT an attack on AH as compared to WB, it is an explaination of why I would like to change to AH but can't.

I have to say that hard as I try to be faithful to WB all the evidence seems to point towards WB3 just being just a graphics upgrade and that AH has already overtaken it in terms of functionality and variety. I can't afford to subscribe to both but I am still not ready to swap WB for AH just yet for two reasons:-

1) I find the AH main arena even more of a 'quake-birds' sim than the WB MA. I prefer atmosphere and authenticity to furballing. I hate the way both games are dumbed down to cater for pilots who don't want to be more than 30 seconds from the nearest suicidal furball. I especially hate the politically correct 'Bishops v Rooks' idea that AH uses.

2) Based on my enquiries here it looks like AH is still not quite as good at scenarios. It is very close and AH is working on it but I will also have to consider the fact that WB3 does promise to make the creation of high quality specialised scenario terrains like Midway and Ploestri and Burma a lot easier and quicker.

If AH introduced a WW2 arena (ie Allies v Axis) I would think about it, if they introduced a good strat element I would change over tonight. Of course I should also point out that when I get my call up for WW2-OL and IF I can see it works they are both history but if U were all honest you would agree with me     (note I did 'IF' it works    )

Xander

[This message has been edited by Xander (edited 02-28-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Xander (edited 02-28-2001).]

[Ripsnort]

We just finished a 4 week "Afika Corp" large scale scenario, and , check out the weekly events, have you been to one yet?  I don't recall seeing you there.

The Scenario Corp is currently offering the following types of
  events:

  Snap Shots - Snapshots are one to two hour organized events
  currently run on Saturdays at 3 PM Eastern Standard Time. Each
  event will focus on the recreation of a specific battle or campaign
  that actually happened during W.W.II.

  Check Six Events - These Events are by announcement only but
  will run on Sundays, from 4:00 PM until 6:00 PM Eastern time.
  Check Six events can be a 'free for all' style, with a historical plane
  set, or more organized with specific goals encouraging players to
  explore the problems and opportunities inherent in historical
  aircraft match ups.

    Scenarios - The Scenario Corp will periodicly hold large events,
  played over several weeks, simulating historic campaigns and
  major battles of WWII.

(note, two more big ones in planning as we speak)

I have flown in the following terrains (but they've yet to be used in the aforementioned events, so yes, you have a valid point)
Japanese mainland
Stalingrad
BoB
Phillipines
Luzon
Afrika Corp (Used in large scale scenario)

many others...

Come on CM guys, lets get some of these terrains upload to the SEA and LETS DO SOME OF THEM, I'm kinda tired of the generic terrains for Check Six events.

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 02-28-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 02-28-2001).]

[fd ski]

 

Originally posted by Xander:

2) Based on my enquiries here it looks like AH is still not quite as good at scenarios. It is very close and AH is working on it but I will also have to consider the fact that WB3 does promise to make the creation of high quality specialised scenario terrains like Midway and Ploestri and Burma a lot easier and quicker.

AH offers wide range of sceanrios. Africa Corps was one of the best large events i've seen to date.

As for WBIII promise of map making - AH already has a terrain editor.

I suggest you do more research before making such assumptions.

And before anyone calls me a AH cheerleader - i'm ==fd== over there  

To each his own lads.



------------------
Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

Northolt Wing Headquarters

[Xander]

Fd, I do know of you in WB (but I am not Xander there   )

I did post in the board about AH Scenarios asking for info from pilots that had flown them in WB and AH but did not get much response and what response I did get seemed to indicate that AH scenarios were good but needed a little more work. I know you have flown a lot of S3s etc. so if you are telling me that you find AH scenarios good then I am happy to take that info on board.  There also seems to be lack of screenshots from scenarios on these boards which makes it hard for me to judge wether you have terrains to match the WB Med & NG terrains which are pretty good. Yes it would be best if I flew some AH events but I can't afford to pay for both AH & WB and I am not allowed to keep taking free trial memberships  

Xander

[AKDejaVu]

 

1) I find the AH main arena even more of a 'quake-birds' sim than the WB MA.

I haven't played WB for two years now, so I can't compare as of now.  I do know that it is comparable to Warbirds in the pre 2.x days.  I could see how things change when the population turns more towards "diehards".

 

I prefer atmosphere and authenticity to furballing. I hate the way both games are dumbed down to cater for pilots who don't want to be more than 30 seconds from the nearest suicidal furball. I especially hate the politically correct 'Bishops v Rooks' idea that AH uses.

Shhh.. them's are fighting words in some circles I prefer a tad more realism, but I can also undestand why this should not be forced on the MA.  Where the change is needed is actually on the scenario side of the house.  Right now, however, that is not there.

 

2) Based on my enquiries here it looks like AH is still not quite as good at scenarios.

I don't think you'll find any arguments here.. but the Scenario Corps is working to bridge the gap.  They just need a little more experience under their belts.

 

It is very close and AH is working on it but I will also have to consider the fact that WB3 does promise to make the creation of high quality specialised scenario terrains like Midway and Ploestri and Burma a lot easier and quicker.

I would be leary of those promises for several reasons... in addition, AH already has the means for users to create those terrains (though it is not simple).  The thing is, terrain is not easy to just "throw" in.  It isn't created instantly and is seldomely without bugs.  It is more of an art than a science.

Warbirds III promising easy to generate reliable terrains is one reason people get skeptical whenever W3 is brought up.  So many promises... everything will be better... we promise.

 

If AH introduced a WW2 arena (ie Allies v Axis) I would think about it, if they introduced a good strat element I would change over tonight.

Quite a few here visit the AGW site on a regular basis.  I don't know that what I've read over there qualifies this as such a great idea

AKDejaVu

[Ripsnort]

     

Originally posted by Xander:

 There also seems to be lack of screenshots from scenarios on these boards which makes it hard for me to judge wether you have terrains to match the WB Med & NG terrains which are pretty good.

 Luzon Terrain

Stalingrad Terrain

More Stalingrad Terrain(best one)

And...new terrain and clouds coming...

We once had a week-end scenario with Lancs flying at night and German interceptors, I was totally in awe....AH is not quite at the WB's level of scenario's, but they are gaining fast and will surpass them soon IMO.




[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 02-28-2001).]

[Yeager]

X,

Simply squelch channel one and %99.9999 of the quack birds and associated punk loser types go away (I refer to these later types as TOWDs - Totally Obnoxious Worthless Drunks, fortunately they number only a few).

Also, its YOUR mindset at the start of EVERY sortie that determines to a large extent whether or not quake finds you.

As for Scenarios and such: The WBs Scenario corps was/is the best.  Unfortunately, many were/are too entrenched in the old paradigm to migrate to AH.  As such, AH has had to build from the ground up and most in the general community arent particularily interested in scenarios for the most part.

Chances are this will change for the better eventually.

Yeager

[Revvin]

I have accounts for both but in a while somethings gonna have to give as I can't go on justifying paying for both. Aces High does'nt have the planeset *yet* for alot of scenario's to be historically re-created and I know HTC is targeting the late war crowd but I really think its time to start moving back through the years and move closer to early war planes so that scenario's such as Blitzkrieg and BoB events can be run which its seems alot of players would be interested in playing.

As for maps for WBIII...well when do you think they will come along? Ien will be VERY busy bug fixing WBIII for a while, thats not to say WBIII will be bug ridden but it has to have a thorough BETA test and I'm sure there will be a few things that may have been missed. HTC has already given the community the tools to create maps (a promise Ien did not keep) and if you take a look at the map making forum in this UBB you'll see some stunning work by a group of talented players all helping each other get around problems to turn out some excellent maps.

Yes Aces High has alot of mid-late war planes but thats what they have decided to make their niche, they would have struggled if they had gone out right from the start as just a clone of Warbirds given their small development team. I often find remarks about so many uber war planes funny as there are alot of mid war planes in AH and I don't see anyone slamming WW2OL for having only early war planes?? They have aimed for their target audience and found them.

The WW2A was a step in the right direction, I went back to Warbirds to give it a try for a while but came away jaded, sure ok we now have two sides and its much nicer to see Spits duelling 109's etc than a Spit duelling another Spit but thats spoiled when you see IJN planes flying over the European terrain and 190's and Spit's of all variants flying over the Water Arena terrain which lends itself more to the Solomons region. On top of that the WW2A still retains the fantasy fuel modifier which lets all planes fly around on a drop of fuel quake style at optimum performance, compare that to AH which not only has a more realistic fuel modifier but also drop tanks which also effect the performance of your chosen ride. They say there will be drop tanks in WBIII but who will use them when you can fly everywhere on less than 50% fuel??

As for the strat element, I think your enquiries have not gone too deep or you've spoken to the wrong people, Aces High has a bit more strat than WB has now, and as WBIII is nothing more than a graphics update then it will have more strat than WBIII. Ammo stations and fuel refineries as well as radar bases to hit that will seriouly hamper your enemy's war effort as well as targets at fields having an effect on the fields capabilities.

Aces High has its bad point depending on your views of online flight-sims, some don't like the late war and would prefer to see some early war planes, Warbirds has the larger planeset but Aces High has some nice planes not modelled in Warbirds. Warbirds EA arena kept my interest as my patience waned waiting for WBIII, it has a (IMO) better lower icon range and they are trying realistic fuel modifiers at the moment.

Why bother making mere enquiries about AH? why not just download the sim and have your free two week trial to evaluate it, even if its not quite to your liking you still have a sim to play 8-way H2H for free.

[easymo]

 If you are any good at all, the nearest furball is not necessarily suicidal. And if, as you state, you are going to WW2OL. What's the point of changing anything. Hey, at least your honest.

[Wanker]

Hi Xander, As a 4+ year veteran of Warbirds, I agree with almost everything you've said.

While it's true that Warbirds may have the best scenarios around, we're making great strides to bridge the gap, as Dejavu said. If you'll remember, it took Warbirds awhile to get the scenarios off and running.

[Tac]

Hey Xander, to fully experience AH's modeling and FM, go to a H2H game that is flying historical planesets and WITHOUT enemy icons.

MA is definetely quake thanks to the laser ranging icons  

[funked]

Don't just ask, sign up for the free trial and fly!  We will be kicking the tails of some sorry Corsair pilots in the Snapshot on Saturday, and you are welcome to join us!

[DRILL]

Don't just ask, sign up for the free trial and fly! We will be kicking the tails of some sorry Corsair pilots in the Snapshot on Saturday, and you are welcome to join us!

  CAN I COME TOO HUH funked ??


------------------
 DRILL                     CO 457TH

[Seeker]

Don't suppose there's any chance of a few event's at a slightly more Eiro friendly timing?

------------------
The **MOL**

[Xander]

Thanks Guys,  The screenshots were an eye opener for me and Luzon looks as good as WB New Guinea which is my favourite.

I understand your point about IENs 'promises' regarding new terrains but all I was saying was that it would be foolish for me to jump ship before I find out wether they were telling the truth or not. They also claim they can produce new planes at a rate of one a month which *IF* it were true would be a big plus.  Regardless of all that the comments in this thread have moved me from 60-40 to 52-48 in WBs favour. Now if only it was not a step up in price as well  

Xander

ps I HAVE tried the two week trial, three times   The last was only a month ago.