A Good Valid question?

[BUG_EAF322]

I readed somewhere that the trim was indeed used to get out off compression?

[Moose11]

A while ago someone posted a link to a site which gave you instructions on how to effectively use your trim tabs - anyone know where that site is?

[Tac]

Yes bug, when you are compressed you can raise your elevator and pull your nose up a LOT quicker, with or without the dive flaps activated. Its also mighty useful to flip your 38 over the top.

I use Combat Trim all the time except when I need to "boost" my plane with trim, at which point I go to manual trim. When I dont need the boost anymore I press "X" twice really fast to reset it to Ctrim.

One thing I would like to ask "real" pilots is the g effects. I can fly a zeke and pull a REALLY tight turn at 250mph and not black out, or not get any black out symptoms... but do it in a P-51 or any other plane, pulling with the same force on the stick at the same speed and you black out inmediately. I though plane performance was one thing and human endurance was a different matter... you should black out at the same G's no matter what plane you in (right?).

[tshred]

Yes Bug you can and people did during the war use trim to get out of compression effect. Most trim controls in a/c use basically the same thing a bycicle uses to move, 2 gears and a chain/cable hook up. The sprocket at the trim control is big and the small one is on the actuator. The elevator,aileron and rudders were/are usually direct connections via cables with no mechanical assistance like gear ratios. That's what allowed pilots to overcome the effects of compression, the gearing in the trim system allowed them to move the control surface with the trim tabs while the direct connection to the stick was useless.

LOL Tac, you guys aren't 'boosting' your moves with trim anymore, HTC fixed the trim model so you can't get any more deflection of a control surface than the a/c allowed by using trim. With that said however, it still may not be 'correct'.

All you really are doing is 'relieving' or 'adjusting' your stick forces at a given airspeed when using trim. Say you have your trim set to 3/4 'down trim' and you are at a low airspeed, your joystick input is gonna be erratic and unprecise until you get the trim back in the correct envelope. This is how HTC simulates the amount of pull or stick force that is required to move the control surface at a given airspeed (it's a little more complicated than the way I've explained it though). The perception of using the trim to help get 'over the top' is just that, a perception. All you actually are doing is using a slower, more precise way to input elevator defection to carry you over the top with out stalling. If you didn't touch the trim and just used stick you would get the same result(providing you have a good precise stick and stick settings to match and a steady hand).

As far as the G effects Tac, you didn't say wether you were pulling the same amount of G's during the turn, just speed and "force on stick". I'm sure you weren't. If you look down you will see the they are much higher in the turn pulling the same amount of stick in the P51. Now if you pulled the same amount of G's in both a/c at the same speed you would find the P51 turning a wider circle than the Zeke at that airspeed and same G force. The same amount(distance of travel) of stick input is gonna give you different results in each a/c at the same airspeed and that's all due to the design, and current trim state of a/c(because that is how HTC models stick force). Stick deflection has nothing to do with G force effect directly speaking. Pull the same amount of deflection at low speed and you don't get the same G forces. Airspeed, a/c weight, and other a/c design factors affect G forces felt while flying.

ts

[CRASH]

Bud Anderson, in his book, reports that he used trim to pull the nose of his early model f-86 up after compressing.

CRASH


 

Originally posted by Vermillion:
Which is "more real" is a very hard answer Marcof, especially considering that they feel very similar in alot of ways. Most people tend to think what they are use too is "better", especially when they are fairly similar in "feel".

I do know that the AH FM handles some things that the WB FM does not. Dynamic CG's, external ordinance/drop tanks drag, and some other things that I'll let the real FM guru's talk about.

But this is very logical result considering that the AH flight models are the direct extension of the experiences learned in creating the WB flight models.

Auto Combat Trim is another difficult subject. There are several very long threads discussing just this issue from back a version ago when it was introduced.

One thing that everyone seemed to agree upon (especially real pilots), was that the way "trim" is used in WB's, and in AH, up until that point, was not very realistic in itself.

Go back and try to find accounts of pilots actively using trim during combat, and or most importantly using trim actively in turn fights to "boost" turn performance or to pull up out of compression effects. Trim just wasn't (and isn't) used that way.

So Auto Combat Trim is somewhat a concession. Please realize however that a experienced pilot using manual trim will get alot more out of his aircraft than another pilot using auto trim.

Those are just a few of the things that were brought up, so I would suggest you go back and read the old threads. They are quite informative.

Personally, I don't think Auto Combat Trim is an "easy mode" at all. It just gets you into the ballpark, it doesn't perfectly trim your aircraft. But I know others that disagree.