A Good Valid question?

[marcof]

Some of the V-Pilots in 249 RAF are asking/talking, about the FM mode in AH, basicly how do the "real" pilots out there rate it, does it seem real to them, can they compare it without flying P51, Spits etc?, does it someway feel "RIGHT" to the real pilots amongst us?.

The other part of the question was and is, does the WB FM seem better? against AH?.
But I dont want to turn this into a WB versus AH discussion..............

Looking forward to your replys...
Marcof 249RAF C~H~Q.

[AKSeaWulfe]

Both games have a highly believable representation of flight. I wouldn't know if they are any more accurate than that, no one does except for a few aeronautical engineers. Computer models are never a spot on representation of the real world. Yes I've flown a few planes, Cessna 172s and 152s and a kit plane called a Cozy.

There's no absolute way to tell which game is more accurate in recreating WWII plane's flying unless everyone in here had flown each of the aircraft modelled in AH or WB and had room to comment on it.
-SW

[marcof]

Oh and another thing........does the auto combat trim seem to offer a "cheat" to pilots who us it?, some of our WB based pilots feel that it is somewhat taking away the skill factor in the game?.

Would like to hear your views on that aswell.
Thanks,
Marcof.

[Yeager]

The One thing that has bothered me about the AH FM compared to WBs is the pre compression modeling.  WBs has it done better IMO.  Fortunately v1.06 will see this fixed.

Also, I seem to recall that in WBs, I was limited in stick response during high speed manoevers.  I feel that in AH there is no loss of stick input regardless of G-load.

These matters aside, Im fine with AH FMs and still find AH more challenging to succeed in than I ever did in WBs.

As for real planes......never flown in one.

Regarding Combat Trim: I use it mostly because I feel limited using manual trim on the keyboard due to my stick not supporting it.  I dont feel its a cheat because folks that can use it manually are better off.

When I get my CH USB gear I plan on programing it to a HAT and using trim manually because its more responsive to immediate needs, like gunnery.

Yeager


[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 02-28-2001).]

[AKSeaWulfe]

I couldn't answer that one Marcof. I don't fly with combat trim on, I prefer to be able to trim my own plane in flight.. most people in AH do trim their own plane. I haven't run into any problems dogfighting in AH, so I believe that people that do have auto combat trim enabled don't get much of an advantage in having it turned on.
-SW

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by marcof:
Oh and another thing........does the auto combat trim seem to offer a "cheat" to pilots who us it?, some of our WB based pilots feel that it is somewhat taking away the skill factor in the game?.

Would like to hear your views on that aswell.
Thanks,
Marcof.

Actually, the pilot that manages his own trim has a big advantage over auto-trim if he employs it correctly.

[AKDejaVu]

 

Oh and another thing........does the auto combat trim seem to offer a "cheat" to pilots who us it?, some of our WB based pilots feel that it is somewhat taking away the skill factor in the game?.

Combat trim does not make your plane handle better.  In most cases it will extend your turns or lead to other wierd behavior.  I fly with combat trim on and immediately disengage it when I enter a fight.  It is only there to get you close, but it doesn't take situation, attitude nor altitude into account.  Its a very simplistic way to keep your trim tabs adjusted for level flight at a given speed... not for best maneuverability at that speed.

AKDejaVu

[Vermillion]

Which is "more real" is a very hard answer Marcof, especially considering that they feel very similar in alot of ways. Most people tend to think what they are use too is "better", especially when they are fairly similar in "feel".

I do know that the AH FM handles some things that the WB FM does not. Dynamic CG's, external ordinance/drop tanks drag, and some other things that I'll let the real FM guru's talk about.

But this is very logical result considering that the AH flight models are the direct extension of the experiences learned in creating the WB flight models.

Auto Combat Trim is another difficult subject. There are several very long threads discussing just this issue from back a version ago when it was introduced.

One thing that everyone seemed to agree upon (especially real pilots), was that the way "trim" is used in WB's, and in AH, up until that point, was not very realistic in itself.

Go back and try to find accounts of pilots actively using trim during combat, and or most importantly using trim actively in turn fights to "boost" turn performance or to pull up out of compression effects. Trim just wasn't (and isn't) used that way.

So Auto Combat Trim is somewhat a concession. Please realize however that a experienced pilot using manual trim will get alot more out of his aircraft than another pilot using auto trim.

Those are just a few of the things that were brought up, so I would suggest you go back and read the old threads. They are quite informative.

Personally, I don't think Auto Combat Trim is an "easy mode" at all. It just gets you into the ballpark, it doesn't perfectly trim your aircraft. But I know others that disagree.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 02-28-2001).]

[fscott]

Hands down WB's fm is much harder.  Accurate? Dunno. For instance, after lots of flying the 190a5 in AH, I tried the 190a4 in WB's and couldn't even hardly get the thing to turn at lower speeds without it stalling.  It could be that perhaps WB's is overdone, too difficult, and unrealistic. Hard to say since I've never flown a real 190.  The 190a4/a5 is reported to have been a very maneuverable aircraft, I see this in AH, but not WB, so who knows.

fscott

[Yeager]

Verm,

If I recall correctly, there was a passage in Bud Andersons book about how he was constantly on the trim wheels, especially during combat manoevers.  Makes sense actually.  I know some guys here that will trim nose up just a tad at the top end of a loop just to make the nose creep up that  extra degree or two onto target.

Y

[Vermillion]

Yeager, a turn of the wheel prior to a fight is one thing, but using trim  to "fly" the plane thru every manuever like alot of people do in both games is a whole nother story.

Most of these planes didn't even have trim in more than 1 or 2 axis's that was accessible from within the cockpit.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[Yeager]

Copy,

Too bad the trim isnt done more realistically I guess.....Doh!

Y

[easymo]

 The only thing wrong with CT, is that it is too fast (instant). People use it for auto trim on angle. If it is off at takeoff it should stay that way.

 As far as realism is concerned. Where was the CT button located in the 109  

[tshred]

I have 400 plus hrs. in real a/c, and AH is currently the most realistic overall hands down IMHO.

There are problems as mentioned in previous posts above, but as a whole in comparison to anything else I've tried it's the best. Situational awareness it what I have the most trouble with in WB's, your fixed head position and dated graphics, other than that it does a good job for how old the game is FM wise considering they don't model as many details as HTC does. I expect WBIII to address these problems and improve them, we'll see.

But I'll stick with HTC always because they focus more on the air war unlike WWII Online, and IEN is on my s**t list over Dawn of Aces so no matter how good WBIII is I probably won't be spending much time there.

They are all 'works in progress' for the most part and I imagine you will see a lot of familiar faces in all flightsims out there changing their minds about which is the best currently with each new version  

ts

[Ice]

I've flown for a number of years...here is my assessment...

I get the software for free.

I pay $1.00/day to play.

The AH flight model is very impressive.

There is a reason that simulators such as those for airlines, etc. cost millions. What HTC has done is to craft a FM close enough to let us have some fun

Is it perfect, or precisely like real life...no...but it's close enough for me.

Ice