Author Topic: Flag Desecration.....should it be outlawed?  (Read 2964 times)

Offline TwentyFo

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Flag Desecration.....should it be outlawed?
« on: March 31, 2008, 06:05:54 PM »
Here is an interesting article in the Omaha World Herald dealing with flag desecration. It's an easy read. Please post your views.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10298017
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Offline Holden McGroin

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Re: Flag Desecration.....should it be outlawed?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2008, 06:11:35 PM »
I am in favor of this:

Quote
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

So I oppose a law abridging my freedom of speech, esp political protest.  I seem to remember swearing to uphold the constitution somewhere.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 06:13:33 PM by Holden McGroin »
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Offline AKIron

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Re: Flag Desecration.....should it be outlawed?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2008, 06:20:00 PM »
I have little problem with dimwits that want to burn their own country's flag. Might as well carry around a sign that says I'm too stupid to find a better place to live. No sweat off my back.

<edit>

So long as they don't do it your son or daughter's funeral.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 06:22:22 PM by AKIron »
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: Flag Desecration.....should it be outlawed?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2008, 06:20:28 PM »
Phelps-Roper's attorney Bassel El-Kasaby

Born: Giza, Egypt :eek: Don't think much more has to be said.

Offline TwentyFo

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Re: Flag Desecration.....should it be outlawed?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2008, 06:27:47 PM »
Phelps-Roper's attorney Bassel El-Kasaby

Born: Giza, Egypt :eek: Don't think much more has to be said.

I had Bassel (the attorney representing) as a professor in two classes, Aviation Law and Aviation Writing. He was a great teacher and I learned a lot from him. As far as I know many others can atest to the same thing. So if you think he is somehow anti-American, you are completely wrong. He is a lawyer and doing his job.
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Offline Chairboy

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Re: Flag Desecration.....should it be outlawed?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2008, 07:15:47 PM »
Popular speech never needs to be protected, the first amendment exists to protect the rights of those saying/protesting the unpopular.  If you outlaw flag desecration, you make a mockery of our constitution.

I might punch the flag burner, but I won't take away his right to be an ass.  Someday, there might be some other unpopular cause that I find myself behind, and I might need that constitutional protection for myself. 
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline mensa180

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Re: Flag Desecration.....should it be outlawed?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2008, 07:19:39 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

A case of this argument, a famous one.  Interesting read.

edit: my original statement came out wrong.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 07:34:38 PM by mensa180 »
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Offline TwentyFo

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Re: Flag Desecration.....should it be outlawed?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2008, 07:50:53 PM »
This is a quote published by Reuters in regards to this case.

Quote
The Supreme Court upheld the right to desecrate the flag in 1989 when it struck down Texas's conviction of Gregory Lee Johnson, a communist who burned a flag, El-Kasaby said.

"I don't agree with my client," El-Kasaby, who was hired by the American Civil Liberties Union, told Reuters. "However, I do respect and cherish the right that we all have to dissent, and that's why I'm defending her in this case."

Here is the link to the full article published in Nov. 2007.
http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSN0639371020071106
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Flag Desecration.....should it be outlawed?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2008, 08:04:30 PM »
While I find flag desecration to be personally repugnant and deliberately insulting I have to agree that it should not be illegal. Burning the symbol of a government is a classic case of speech towards the government and should be legal. On the other hand, I feel that flag burning should also be a defense to assaulting the person doing the burning.
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Offline Toad

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Re: Flag Desecration.....should it be outlawed?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2008, 08:06:50 PM »
Please post your views.

After you, Alphonse.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline lasersailor184

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Re: Flag Desecration.....should it be outlawed?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2008, 08:07:52 PM »
While I do find it repugnant, I personally wouldn't ban it.


However, I would make it clearly legal for other americans to go in and "Get the Flag" should they so wish.

If burning the flag is free speech, then so is cracking a few hippie skulls to get it back.
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Offline TwentyFo

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Re: Flag Desecration.....should it be outlawed?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2008, 08:32:59 PM »
After you, Alphonse.

I admit, I had to google that to find out what it meant.  :rofl :rofl
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 08:35:35 PM by TwentyFo »
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Offline Toad

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Re: Flag Desecration.....should it be outlawed?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2008, 08:59:21 PM »
If i were not in mortal fear of violating Rule 6, I would point out that Rule 17 is still in effect. But I am in mortal fear, so I will not point that out.
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Offline bustr

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Re: Flag Desecration.....should it be outlawed?
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2008, 09:01:14 PM »
There is presidence at least to protect the individual who is spurred to action by the desecration of our flag if the burning of it is defended under the 1st amedmant.

The fighting words doctrine, in United States constitutional law, is a limitation to freedom of speech as granted in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. In its 9-0 decision, Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire (1942), the U.S. Supreme Court established the doctrine and held that "insulting or 'fighting words', those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace" are among the "well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech [which] the prevention and punishment of...have never been thought to raise any constitutional problem."

There are certain well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise any constitutional problem. These include the lewd and obscene, the profane, the libelous, and the insulting or "fighting words" those which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. It has been well observed that such utterances are no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality.

– Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, 1942

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Offline TwentyFo

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Re: Flag Desecration.....should it be outlawed?
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2008, 09:09:00 PM »
If i were not in mortal fear of violating Rule 6, I would point out that Rule 17 is still in effect. But I am in mortal fear, so I will not point that out.

I get what you're saying. So here it goes.

I don't believe what the Phelps family and their church stands for. I hate the fact that they protest deaths of soldiers. They are despicable excuse for what religion is supposed to stand for. However, we do live in America and we are given the freedom of speech.

It will be interesting to see how far this case goes after it leaves Sarpy County.
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