Abstinence only teaching less effective at preventing sex than comprehensive

[midnight Target]

Umm, you guys do know how to read, right?  I have to assume that you do because this is a message board, but you guys are trying your darndest to prove that you don't.

First off, what Chairboy quotes says that Sexual Education is better than NO sexual education.  It mentions nothing about Abstinence, but read into it what you want.

The rest of the article goes on to say that the findings between everything else are not statistically significant to have a valid conclusion.




The ONLY conclusion is that Sex Ed is better than Sex Ed.  Nothing was concluded about Abstinence programs.

Try to follow along, we were commenting on lazs' "statsfromtherectum" vs. the chart above.

[Holden McGroin]

I know of some algebra teaching is most ineffective. Perhaps it is the teaching itself that is ineffective, not the subject.

[lazs2]

well...  chairboy.. sorry to rain on your "religion is the root of all evil" parade but..

The "orifice" I pulled these stats out of were the federal government.. a particularly stinky one...

The rates for 15-19 year olds was...  80%... oddly enough.. this with abortion and sex education.. overall rates are at about 35% with negro rate at 68%

http://www.cwfa.org/articledisplay.asp?id=5109&department=BLI&categoryid=femfacts

You will also see that the rates during the 40's 50's and even sixties when there was no sex education or even legal abortion was at a high of (gasp) 5%

Now it is 7 times that?    how is that not an indictment on our sex education and abortion experiment?


lazs

[Chairboy]

Where did I mention religion?  I think you're trying to make a red herring to draw attention away from the evidence I posted that showed a trend downwards in pregnancy rates among teens after you made an unsupportable statement that 80% of teens these days were pregnant and dripping w/ STDs.

Stay on-topic if ya can....

[lazs2]

You will note that the white illigitimacy rate in 1950 was about 2%   Same for the 60's  it is now 28% for whites.

Now.. this seems like one hell of a lot more easy to read trend than your "maybe it is maybe it isn't who knows" study.. 

I don't think anything but abstinence was being taught in the 50's or 60's.   

so, explain to me how I was wrong and how much better off we are since abortion and sex education have steadily increased...

explain how a rate that is 7 to 20 times higher is a solution.   

lazs

[indy007]

The "orifice" I pulled these stats out of were the federal government.. a particularly stinky one...

I'm not thinking CWA = Federal Government...

CWA is built on prayer and action.

We are the nation's largest public policy women's organization with a rich 29-year history of helping our members across the country bring Biblical principles into all levels of public policy.

Mission Statement

The mission of CWA is to protect and promote Biblical values among all citizens - first through prayer, then education, and finally by influencing our society - thereby reversing the decline in moral values in our nation.

Vision Statement

The vision of CWA is for women and like-minded men, from all walks of life, to come together and restore the family to its traditional purpose and thereby allow each member of the family to realize their God-given potential and be more responsible citizens.

Statement of Faith



We believe the Bible to be the verbally inspired, inerrant Word of God and the final authority on faith and practice.


We believe Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God, was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, died a sacrificial death, rose bodily from the dead on the third day and ascended into Heaven from where He will come again to receive all believers unto Himself.


We believe all men are fallen creations of Adam's race and in need of salvation by grace through personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.


We believe it is our duty to serve God to the best of our ability and to pray for a moral and spiritual revival that will return this nation to the traditional values upon which it was founded

[Chairboy]

Nice catch, Indy!

Lasz, 2%, eh?  I'm sure that in your world, there wasn't any change in the number of super young 'sisters' to girls of birthing age (who, btw, had the rheumatic fever or some other illness that kept them at home from school just before their 'sister' showed up) either.  Fascinating.

[lazs2]

chair...  read the freaking link.. it is federal government.

IT SAYS THAT THE RATE TODAY IS 80% OF TEENS BETWEEN 15 AND 19.

It also says that the entire rate is 34% and that it was less than 4% in 1950.. 

Now.. I can't help you if you won't or can't read.

lazs

[midnight Target]

chair...  read the freaking link.. it is federal government.

IT SAYS THAT THE RATE TODAY IS 80% OF TEENS BETWEEN 15 AND 19.

It also says that the entire rate is 34% and that it was less than 4% in 1950.. 

Now.. I can't help you if you won't or can't read.

lazs

Can't read?

What your link says is "among teens 80% of all births are illegitimate". Quite a bit different than your original claim that 80% of teens got pregnant. So the real story here is that the stigma of having children out of wedlock has basically been erased at the same time as the reduction in teen pregnancy. Amazing.. huh?

[Chairboy]

Lazs2, there's a big difference between that and your original claim.  Your thoughts?

[indy007]

chair...  read the freaking link.. it is federal government.

Lazs, I'm still reading the site. I still don't see anything about it being the federal government. All I see is a bunch of stuff about activism, how they're involved with legislation, etc. The opening page has a tag for Terri Schiavo and "Support Our Troops, Let them Win!". It's pretty obvious they're a special interest group, and not the government. Furthermore; there's no statement at all about where their numbers come from or how they were obtained in the article you linked. Not much difference from reading a site like.. oh.. say... Greenpeace.

[lazs2]

sheesh..  the site merely quoted the federal study and you guys know it.. I just grabbed the first site that quoted...

There are a lot of em but here is the actual federal one

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/greenbook2003/AppendixM.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr52/nvsr52_10.pdf

It simply says that the rate is 80% for 16-19 year olds

" According to the latest National Vital Statistics Reports of the federal government, 34 percent of all births in the United States now are to unmarried mothers. Of course, it will surprise no one that nearly all births to girls below 15, and 80 percent of those to girls between 15 and 19, are out-of-wedlock. But even among women between 20 and 24, 52 percent of births are now illegitimate.

Those figures are for all races and ethnicities. As the federal report notes, however, in a decided understatement: “Birth rates for unmarried women vary widely by race and Hispanic origin.” Among African Americans, 68.2 percent of births are illegitimate, versus 23.0 percent for non-Hispanic whites. For American Indians, 59.7 percent of births are illegitimate; for Asians and Pacific Islanders, 14.9 percent; and for Hispanics of all races, 43.5 percent.

Of course, “Asians and Pacific Islanders” and “Hispanics” are artificial categories, and this is reflected in the wide range of illegitimacy rates among their respective subgroups. Thus, only 9.0 and 10.3 percent of Chinese and Japanese births, respectively, are out-of-wedlock, versus 20.0 percent for Filipinos and 50.4 percent for Hawaiians; and the percentage of illegitimate births for Puerto Ricans (59.1) is double that of Cubans (29.8), with Mexicans (42.1) and Central and South Americans (44.8) falling in"

Do I have to look up the studies that now say that one in four teenage girls have an STD?

can you bother to look up the rates for 1940 1950 and sixties?  before sex education at school and abortion for all?   

the rates were never more than from 1.7% to about five.. they are 7 times that now.

lazs

[midnight Target]

You said 80% of teenage girls were PREGNANT. Your links don't support that.

[lazs2]

what?   my original claim was 80% of the "girls" were having out of wedlock babies.. the study shows that between the ages of 15 and 19 that it is...  wait for it... 80%

Now how is a 20-40 year old woman.. a girl?   I said girls.. 15-19 are the ones under the influence of the socialist schools and.. what everyone would accept as being young girls.

The rate.. the overall rate.. for negros is 68%   more than two thirds of every birth.

The rates are as mt... and I... point out... 34% overall but... that is up from 1.7% in the time they didn't teach sex education  7-20 times higher.. the rate for up to 24 or so year olds is 54%...  so.. I guess that sex education really works... once you reach about 40 or so eh?

The trends are clear.   it is going in the exact direction of my original post just as I said.

What about my original post do you think does not agree with the data?

lazs

[midnight Target]

Now that we have sex education by the indocrtrinization centers...  we only have about 80% of the girls getting pregnant and only 1 in four with STD's.
lazs

See ^