Author Topic: Gun nuts...  (Read 843 times)

Offline Vulcan

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Gun nuts...
« on: April 06, 2008, 07:03:38 PM »
I'm looking for some advice. My rabbit hunting success with my air rifle has gotten me interested in going further (the edge of my hunting area borders a forest with pig, goats, and deer).

So I've applied for a NZ Firearms license which will let me buy a "real" rifle.

I still want to bunny hunt. But if you want to shoot in National Parks/Forests it appears you must use a centrefire rifle. So I've been looking around at costs, performance, weights etc.

From what I can tell my best choices are something like .223 Ruger Mini 14, maybe something like a 22 Hornet (seem rare here), or maybe a 22-250?

I don't want something to heavy, nor something thats going to rip a bunny to shreds (ie want to keep the maat). Keep in mind NZ heavily restricts the use of fully automatics, cannons, artillery, guided and unguided missles - and none of these would be suitable (we're also Nuclear Free in case you forgot).

Any advice/recommendations?

Offline 68valu

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Re: Gun nuts...
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2008, 07:07:27 PM »
.17 hmr
Flying since tour 84

Offline 68valu

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Re: Gun nuts...
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2008, 07:26:16 PM »
Flying since tour 84

Offline Blooz

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Re: Gun nuts...
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2008, 07:28:49 PM »
22-250 would be a bit much I think for small game.

In our house we used .22 Hornet (do they still make it?)

These days I'd use my M1 .30 Carbine. (I think Dad gave the Hornet to my brother).
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Offline wrag

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Re: Gun nuts...
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2008, 07:29:22 PM »
If you are going to hunt goats pigs and deer then may I suggest for the animals sake use a larger caliber then .223 so they don't suffer OR be an excellent shot, OR IMHO it is far better if you do both.

Pigs can be hard to kill and can be dangerous!

Deer can be hard to kill but aren't so dangerous.

Can't say much about goats.

Suggest 6mm?, a .270, 7mm, .30 something with a little more reach.  Not that you should use them at distances greater then perhaps 200 yards mind you.

You want something with some punch to insure a quick clean taking of the animal.

As to the bunnys might want to stay with your pellet gun for them?
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Offline DieAz

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Re: Gun nuts...
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2008, 07:38:10 PM »
pig and deer .243 Winchester is about as small as you want to go. it'll work fine on goats too. for rabbits, make it is headshots and you'll be ok. saw a guy nail one with a body shot, didn't look too bad, we never got to skin it. the pack of dogs got a hold of it and ripped it to pieces.

BAR .243 (Browning semi auto)
Savage  Model 110 bolt action .243 is a good one. (own both, good guns)
or a Stevens .243.
what ever you get, if you are using open sights, get the gun with Williams sights installed. in my personal experience Williams sights are far better than any other I've ever used.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Rifles/auction-147121911.htm
one near you. auction might be over. oh well.
 
http://www.savagearms.com/st_200short.htm
didn't see the model 110, might not be made these days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savage_Model_110
http://www.savagearms.com/st_200short.htm

http://www.browning.com/  if get a Browning make sure it was manufactured in Belgium. (better made than the foreign made [by foreign I mean, made anywhere else besides Belgium])

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Gun nuts...
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2008, 07:44:50 PM »
If you are going to hunt goats pigs and deer then may I suggest for the animals sake use a larger caliber then .223 so they don't suffer OR be an excellent shot, OR IMHO it is far better if you do both.

I was thinking nothing outside of clear shots <100m. I bowled a bunny last night at ~80m, slipped a pellet in 1cm behind its ear, 1 shot from a standing positon with a Gamo CFX air rifle (4x32 scope), in pouring rain, soaked to the bone, was quite pride of that shot even if it was just a bunny :)

Forgot to mention there is also livestock in the vicinity, hence not wanting something with too much of a boom.

Blooz there is a hornet on offer: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=147629343  (NZ$590), and is in my area. What do you think?

Offline DieAz

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Re: Gun nuts...
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2008, 07:47:12 PM »
oh maybe a Remington .243 too
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_750_woodsmaster.asp

never met a pig that was hard to kill. the .243 does a fine job of it.
make it charge you and you'll get a good clean head shot that becomes easier to hit as it comes nearer you.

Offline DieAz

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Re: Gun nuts...
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2008, 07:55:34 PM »
Forgot to mention there is also livestock in the vicinity, hence not wanting something with too much of a boom.

are they deaf to a thunder storm? 

they'll get used to the boom very quick.
I was born, raised, and hunted around livestock all my life.

Offline LTARGlok

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Re: Gun nuts...
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2008, 08:44:43 PM »
Rabbits are small targets, so you need a really accurate rifle.   Many semiauto rifles like the Ruger Mini 14 are not at all very accurate.   A good bolt action rifle would be better.

Recommendations for the .243 Winchester are way over kill for rabbits.   I have seen even the largest Jackrabbits literally explode when hit by the .243.   It would be ideal for the bigger game that you mention, though.

If you have the ability to handload your own ammo, a rifle in either the 17 Remington Fireball or 221 Remington Fireball are about the ideal centerfire round for rabbits.  Both use little powder, and small .17 or .22 caliber bullets.   The .20 caliber .204 Ruger is another option, although even it is a bit too powerful.   A .22-250 would also devastate a rabbit like a .243, unless you handloaded it down in performance.

Are you absolutely sure that rimfire ammo is forbidden for small game too?   That sort of regulation makes no sense at all.   Centerfire ammo has far greater range, and is thus much more dangerous than rimfire ammo.   That hunting is even allowed in your National Parks is exceptional.   No hunting of any kind is allowed in any of our National Parks or National Monuments.   And PETA is now trying to get fishing banned from them also.

Here is a review of a link to my Rabbit rifle:

http://www.gunblast.com/Savage-93R17.htm

Ruger and CZ also make good rifles in the .17 HMR caliber.

And here is a review of a CZ rifle in .221 Fireball:

http://www.gunblast.com/CZ-527.htm

If you have to limit yourself to only one gun, then perhaps you could compromise with the .223 Remington.   But get a Bolt action, and not an auto rifle.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2008, 09:48:55 PM by LTARGlok »

Offline EskimoJoe

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Re: Gun nuts...
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2008, 08:57:58 PM »
Get a .50 caliber Barret if you want pre-made chunks!  :lol
Put a +1 on your geekness atribute  :aok

Offline Toad

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Re: Gun nuts...
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2008, 09:01:02 PM »
How heavy are the pigs, deer and goats respectively?

I don't think you want to use a .17HMR on a 400 lb boar hog but then maybe NZ hogs and deer are little bitty critters.

The suggestions you get will be more useful if the suggesters have a better idea of the physical characteristics of the animals you intend to prey upon.
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Offline DieAz

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Re: Gun nuts...
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2008, 09:07:18 PM »
he has an Air Rifle for the wascally wicked Wabbits.

he needs a pig, goat, and deer slayer. nothing less than a .243 Winchester will do.

.30-.30 Winchester would be my recommendation for 150 yards or less.  300 yard shot is possible, but.... for accuracy it would be pushing it for most of the standard rounds made for .30-.30s.

Offline Maverick

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Re: Gun nuts...
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2008, 09:21:43 PM »
I think for what you want 2 rifles would be best. A .22 rimfire for bunnies. I do not like .223 or 22-250 at all for hunting other than varmints. There is far too much loss of meat. If you shoot a rabbit with a 22-250 you'll likely have chunks spread over a large area. I have one and used it for varmints like coyotes. It was not good for rabbits at all. The bullets in .22 are too fragile especially at the higher velocities of the 22-250. The 22-250 is also far from a quiet round, it's rather loud.

I would recommend a 24 or 25 caliber for the larger game as you aren't going real heavy. A .243 would be good and you have a variety of bullets for medium sized game.
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Offline DieAz

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Re: Gun nuts...
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2008, 09:23:53 PM »
How heavy are the pigs, deer and goats respectively?

I don't think you want to use a .17HMR on a 400 lb boar hog but then maybe NZ hogs and deer are little bitty critters.

The suggestions you get will be more useful if the suggesters have a better idea of the physical characteristics of the animals you intend to prey upon.

I'd say this deer is pretty nice sized. http://www.chrisjolly.co.nz/?PK_PAGE_ID=736
if these are the pigs, yep ya gonna need something bigger. http://www.pork.co.nz/nzpork/kids_area/pig_breeds.asp
goats hmmm http://www.lifestyleblock.co.nz/articles/breeds/23_boer_goats.htm
NZ wild goat on youtube  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV0RRb_Vlhg

changed my recommendations.
you are going to need a bigger gun.
something bigger than 7mm (.280), maybe 8mm range in size. (.30 - 06) (.308)