OK,enuff with the furballers mentality!

[crockett]

So you're advocating that he do a maneuver that will lead to his death 10% of the time, vs. an extension that will lead to his death 0% of the time? 

The 190 pilots who can consistently outscissor a Spitfire are gods for whom I have the highest respect.  I've done it successfully and unsuccessfully, but criticizing someone for not attempting it when extending is the better choice doesn't make sense.  There are many occasions when a scissor maneuver will lead to death less often than trying to run away.  That's the moment to practice it and learn it.

Yenny also knows his acm.  You should have seen him in the 109G-14 against P-51Ds during last week's SnapShot.

Yes.. I'm saying fight every fight that is a 1 on 1 or even 3 on 1, no matter if you think you will lose or win. Lives aren't free but they only cost $14.99 a month and are unlimited. Every single fight is a chance to learn something and you will learn the most by putting your self in a tough situations. I don't care who you are or how long you have played, there is always more to learn if you challenge yourself. The people that don't challenge themselves and engage fights with odds against them, will never reach their full potential. Same with guys that only fly the same plane over and over and over.

Think of it like this.. so you run from the spit.. sure you lived, but what did you learn from it? If you are serious about being as good as you can be in this game you will always challenge yourself.

I'll post two recent films from the DA.. I was flying the P40's trying to learn it, I'm getting better but IMO I still suck in it.

First film is me in a p40 and Dazycutr in a spit5. This was my first time in a P40 in months, I was so noobish when picking it I grabbed the one with no wep. I first ran into a F4U  got a few rounds in him and he dove to the deck. I didn't follow because I saw the spit coming, the F4U crashes for what ever reason.

P40 vs Spit 5 Film

With the spit I figured I had a good chance of killing him, I actually like to fight spits because they are one of the easiest planes to rip to shreds once you get your guns on them. They turn good but I'm dumb and always think I can beat them no matter what I'm flying..lol

I'll say straight up I'll often let a con get on my six just to see if I can shake him. In this fight I didn't intend for him to get on me like he was @ 2:30. That was total dumbness on my part and not being used to the p40. Overall, I think I made several mistakes in this one mostly stalling the plane which eventually caused me to auger. I think I would have won this fight and I think Dazy made a few mistakes and should have killed me much earlier but it was a good fight none the less. My biggest mistake was getting too eager for that kill because I saw it coming and I augured like a 2 week noob. Smack me in the head and call me a dumbaruse because I totally blew it. However I still learned a lot and had a fun fight.


Second is me in a p40 vs a huri 2. I know going into this fight I don't have a very good chance in winning I mean lets face it, anyone can turn in a hurricane and there was 2 of them close by. If it's a decant stick the planes are hard to beat in a turn fight, so why not jump in for a challenge? I lost but I put up a hell of a fight IMO but I leaned from my mistakes. I didn't get killed because I was in a P40 and he was in a H2. I was killed because I made mistakes.

P40 vs Hurricane 2 Film

Right off the start I screwed up and put the plane into a stall and lost most of my alt like a dumb 2 week noob. I'm new to the plane, and it was just my dumb mistake. Second mistake I made is what set me up to get killed and was at 2:39, I turned right when I should have followed him around to the left. I saw him turn the other way and I didn't follow.. Totally dumb mistake on my part and I paid for it in the next set of turns by dieing. The other mistake I made was turning back to him after I made that mistake. I should have nosed down and built a tab bit of speed before turning back to him.

I have to say in this fight, I saw all those red cons all over the place 10 of them if you count them in the film. I was totally amazed that they all didn't dive in for the easy cherry pick kills. Only 2 of them did and one augured. so Hat's off to the other ones whom let the fight go on.. (Maybe there is hope after all)

[Bruv119]

Like yenny said above plz do come forward with how to beat spit 16 on your six in a dora. Make a film write up or whatever. I first am willing to learn and fly with some that can out turn la spit and  rest of "tard "planes.

 

Extend level climb slightly.  Wait until he gets bored of chasing you or runs out of fuel.  Or get a friendly to drop on him so he has to break.  Climb up but keep an eye on him incase he turns back into you.  Go vertical loop back down and take a potshot.  If he pulls any sort of overshoot move extend like hell just froze over.  Repeat until he dies.



Joking aside if a spit 16 is 600 off and you try to outturn him it ain't gonna happen if he knows what he is doing.   If he dropped in with lots of E I would do my favourite typhoon move.   Kill throttle pull up hard kick the rudder, roll or stick the nose down.  Anything to force him to blow past.  If he decides to turn to get back around on you try and ride inside of his turn doing your best to shoot him.   Roll rate is the doras strength use it or lose it.

Any good spit pilot would bleed his E and ride your 6 and kill your run 190 cold.  If you do force the overshoot and he goes up and plays the E game against you your screwed hit the deck and run.  



 

[Yenny]

How is P40 close to D9 in turnfighting?

[B3YT]

Meh, I'll fight any of ya, any time, any place. I wont win (virtually never anyway), but thats how I'm learning what does and doesn't work. Each fight is different, and to me, thats what keeps me coming back (even though I've not been playing that long). I dont care if you bnz me, turn with me, take me into the verticals, whatever - each time I'm learning (even tho I'm old and it takes a lot of time). Each to their own tho, its your money to have fun with - do what suits you.

Just my 0.00002p worth. Ymmv,


Wurzel

but wurzel will kick your arse with a killer guitar solo ............(he went down to the crossroads you know)

[Yenny]

Extend level climb slightly.  Wait until he gets bored of chasing you or runs out of fuel.  Or get a friendly to drop on him so he has to break.  Climb up but keep an eye on him incase he turns back into you.  Go vertical loop back down and take a potshot.  If he pulls any sort of overshoot move extend like hell just froze over.  Repeat until he dies.



Joking aside if a spit 16 is 600 off and you try to outturn him it ain't gonna happen if he knows what he is doing.   If he dropped in with lots of E I would do my favourite typhoon move.   Kill throttle pull up hard kick the rudder, roll or stick the nose down.  Anything to force him to blow past.  If he decides to turn to get back around on you try and ride inside of his turn doing your best to shoot him.   Roll rate is the doras strength use it or lose it.

Any good spit pilot would bleed his E and ride your 6 and kill your run 190 cold.  If you do force the overshoot and he goes up and plays the E game against you your screwed hit the deck and run. 



 

I don't fly spits but I know what it is capable of, I'm pretty sure if the D9 pilot and spit 16 pilot are of same skill level. The d9 pilot won't have a chance. Spit just have so many more options in that situation. Novice spit pilots you might be able to out scissor, but good pilots not gunna fall for them easy tricks.

[crockett]

How is P40 close to D9 in turnfighting?

I never said it was the same as a D9. I posted it to show you can fly sub par plane and put up a hell of a fight against a much better plane.  IMO the D9 is a much better plane than a P40. If you notice, I didn't try to out turn either plane.. No possible way I could. I used scissors and stall turns, much the way you would do in a D9.

D9 has a much better roll rate and a much more powerful engine. The plane means nothing, it's about the pilot. Sure some planes like say a A6M or a Huri 2 can drastically close the gap between experience but over all the plane has little to do with anything.

[Bruv119]

thats exactly it yenny hell you've watched me kill your friendlies before I even have to evade your pass.

I dont expect 190's to turn fight me, if I see a well flown one using good E retention and being aggressive when the situation allows i'll salute him.   I hate the guys who come in guns blazing with little or no use.   Nothing irks me more is when they only turn back in when they see your busy fighting someone else I get all pent up and shake my fist at their coward, sneaky approach.   I know when someone is doing it and I will go out of my way to kill that person over the guys prepared to fight.

Either way i do like the dora and always land numerous kills when I do fly it.

[moot]

Like yenny said above plz do come forward with how to beat spit 16 on your six in a dora. Make a film write up or whatever. I first am willing to learn and fly with some that can out turn la spit and  rest of "tard "planes.

 

Uh no.. How about you go make the effort yourself?

[crockett]

Uh no.. How about you go make the effort yourself?

Why would they want to do that when they can just run.. 

[DrDea]

Different planes require different Tacts.Cause a dora extends doensnt make him a tard.The guy expecting a dora to fight at a serious dissadvantage is a quake tard.All planes have their own area to work in.I know a lot run away but to expect a dora to turn fight or even hang in a fight its outclassed is a moronic line of thought.Then again I could be wrong.

[crockett]

Different planes require different Tacts.Cause a dora extends doensnt make him a tard.The guy expecting a dora to fight at a serious dissadvantage is a quake tard.All planes have their own area to work in.I know a lot run away but to expect a dora to turn fight or even hang in a fight its outclassed is a moronic line of thought.Then again I could be wrong.

So you wont fight unless you have an advantage?

[SkyRock]

I don't fly spits but I know what it is capable of, I'm pretty sure if the D9 pilot and spit 16 pilot are of same skill level. The d9 pilot won't have a chance. Spit just have so many more options in that situation. Novice spit pilots you might be able to out scissor, but good pilots not gunna fall for them easy tricks.

Yenny, I upped a dora last night at a capped base, I got out over the water and a pony came screaming in and got my right aileron.  I nosed down waiting for the second pass.  As he came in on second pass, I did a nose under roll and he went back up, this time with less E, and came back in again.  He got my forward fuel on the second pass and on the 3rd pass I nose under fake rolled and nosedown to bounce nose back up for a shot as he passed high.  I got hits on him, and he went up and behind me again, so I nose down and set up a rolling scissors and on 4th pass we got into some kicking scissors and he pulled up and out again but had to re-engage because he didnt have enuff to rope me, so we start a 4-5 minute rolling scissors until fi9nally I get him to drop his left wing and fall under my guns.  In the scissors, we were going 1/2 turns and I was getting inside of him, so dora's can turn u just have to learn how to manipulate the pitch and roll characteristics of the ride.   The pony was Hammer.

[hammer]

That was a good fight. My next flight I landed 7. What the un-enlightened fail to see is the unsuccessful 1 v 1 is more fun than the 7 furball kills.

Regards,

Hammer

[Yenny]

Yenny, I upped a dora last night at a capped base, I got out over the water and a pony came screaming in and got my right aileron.  I nosed down waiting for the second pass.  As he came in on second pass, I did a nose under roll and he went back up, this time with less E, and came back in again.  He got my forward fuel on the second pass and on the 3rd pass I nose under fake rolled and nosedown to bounce nose back up for a shot as he passed high.  I got hits on him, and he went up and behind me again, so I nose down and set up a rolling scissors and on 4th pass we got into some kicking scissors and he pulled up and out again but had to re-engage because he didnt have enuff to rope me, so we start a 4-5 minute rolling scissors until fi9nally I get him to drop his left wing and fall under my guns.  In the scissors, we were going 1/2 turns and I was getting inside of him, so dora's can turn u just have to learn how to manipulate the pitch and roll characteristics of the ride.   The pony was Hammer.

=) that's different situation though Skyrock, I'd probably do the same more or less in that situation. P51D have some what the same turn radius and performance as a D9, so it's not a big problem. I turn fight against P51D and other FW all the times. It just I try not to tnb vs. the pure TnB planes.

[bongaroo]

I don't think he's understanding that by asking him to stay and fight we don't mean TnB.  Doom constantly pwns me in any 190, even in my ki84.  And get this: He doesn't have to extend 6k away after a failed BnZ!  He fights!  OMG, I was getting the impression from this thread that you have to run and rely on others to be successful!   

Getting a kill or death after a good tussle with him is 1,000 times more rewarding than chasing these tards around while they scream for help on their vox.