Author Topic: General Idea to try...  (Read 1798 times)

Offline Brocster

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General Idea to try...
« on: April 11, 2008, 12:06:33 PM »
Well, for what it's worth, here is my two cents on a way to try to solve what seems to be a general complaint about this game - score hoarding in it's varying forms.  In essence, it is the continuing comments and issues around the lack of willingness to fight in the MA.

Just a little background and general comments first.  I have been playing AH for quite some time.  My posts may make me look like a Noob, but that is only because I took two years off, starting again last month.  I first played AHI, starting in early 02, and played AH quite regularly until about two years ago, where I had to take time off for both work and school reasons.  I only say this to perhaps show that I have some experience and history here.

I do agree that the game has changed.  However, one can really look at this two ways.  First, most of the complaining on the BBS comes from seasoned sticks who love a challenging fight and have the skills to prove it, for the most part I guess.  They are not really concerned (generally) about scores and are most interested in mastering less than easy aircraft. For example, I very rarely see vets in Spit 16's or La-La's---the S.A.P.P's in their 38's, and recently seeing the Muppets in the Hawgs help show this. However, a majority of the people playing ARE concerned with scores, and therefore, fly planes or tactics that they feel will allow them to survive, even if those tactics are not the best in a more seasoned players mind.

Second, and I know this will tickle the ire of a few vets, one can argue that the same tactics that cause a few noses to wrinkle here would be considered proper if this was not a cartoon game.  I am by no means an aviation expert, but, I have tried to really learn about WWII aviation over the years.  One of the common points stressed by leadership in the fighter ranks, from the Flying Tiger days through Thomas McGuire's rules on the 38's use, was to stay fast and, in essence, boom and zoom and stay in the advantage.  To a point, the tactics that are applied by these folk are simply in line with that thought, whether they know it or not.

Still this is a game, and what is right for some is completely against what others are looking for.

One other quick point: often posts seem irate, mean, pointed etc...  Some are intended that way.  However, only about 7% - 10% of a persons communciation actually gets through properly via text.  Much of what a person is trying to say, and how they are saying it, get's lost.  I think that inflames the issue.

One of the reasons I had to take off for two years was to attend Business School.  One of the things drilled into our thick skulls there is that if one does not like the results of a certain "game" (they actually use this term), don't look at the players, first look at the game itself as well as the processes the game utilizes/rewards.

That said, here is what I propose:

The actions of picking/running/boom-zoom-scram, and just a general lack of engagement is a result of the game rewarding this behavior.  It does so in two ways - Aknowledging multiple kills landed via 200 as well as the ranking system.  These two "things", more than anything else, validate the actions that we see in the MA.  If we would like a different result, change the system!  I propose that one MA in late war be changed to operate with different rules.  Still have base captures/strategy as intended, but simply remove the "kills landed" message, and, change the weight of ranking so the kills/death ratio does not factor in as heavily, or at all.  I propose being farily harsh with the last idea (making it a non-issue) so as to really see if the idea works.

Coming from an IT background, I would assume that these slight modifications would not be difficult to implement.  Also, I would not add a third MA, simply take Orange or Blue and apply the new rules to it.  This might cause a new ranking system, but still, it can be tried as a few months long experiment, simply moved back if the idea does not work.  Change can be a good thing, especially if it provides positive results.

I fully believe that is the social desire to land kills is taken away, we will see much more agressive fighting in the MA.  In fact, one can even add new messages/scoring to promote the engagement of dogfights/acm.

As one of my strategy books says, "If you desire different results, do not change the players, change the game!". 

Well.....thoughts?

Thanks,
Broc


As a side note, I have had some very fun fights of late - I agree there is nothing more ewarding here than a good multi-minute dogfight, even if I get shot down.

<S>


Dodging the wife ack on my 6 at all times

 - - When my two year old pulls the joystick cable out, can I get my own proxie kill?  - -

Flying as CrzeMonk in the MA

Offline sunfan1121

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Re: General Idea to try...
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2008, 01:36:10 PM »
I think you have A little too much time on your hands.
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Offline hitech

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Re: General Idea to try...
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2008, 02:01:25 PM »
Quote
Well, for what it's worth, here is my two cents on a way to try to solve what seems to be a general complaint about this game - score hoarding in it's varying forms.  In essence, it is the continuing comments and issues around the lack of willingness to fight in the MA.

You are trying to solve something that you perceive as a problem, that you have not shown to be a problem.


You are correct that changing the score system has an effect on game play, but not that your choice of game play would be better.

Offline RATTFINK

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Re: General Idea to try...
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2008, 02:03:02 PM »
I could give to shytes about score.  I just wanna have fu-un... *CRAP* now I have that song in my head...
Hitting trees since tour 78

Offline Brocster

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Re: General Idea to try...
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2008, 02:15:08 PM »
You are trying to solve something that you perceive as a problem, that you have not shown to be a problem.


You are correct that changing the score system has an effect on game play, but not that your choice of game play would be better.


Just to clarify... I actually don't think the game is broke.... I just get on the BBS and there are usually tons of complaints about the gameplay from folks...  This was just my way of responding to think of an option..
Dodging the wife ack on my 6 at all times

 - - When my two year old pulls the joystick cable out, can I get my own proxie kill?  - -

Flying as CrzeMonk in the MA

Offline Murdr

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Re: General Idea to try...
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2008, 02:16:14 PM »
I like the in depth scoring system in AH (even though I don't actually play to its metrics).  In all these years, I think this is the only tweak I've suggested
(# of enemy in proximity/# of friendlies within proximity)=ProxyMod

ProxyMod*DamageVsEny=Damage vs Eny points logged for incident
and...
ProxyMod*DamageVsEny=Perk points logged for incident

Seriously!  Im sick of the "war game"/"overwhelming force"/"teamplay" mentality of some sects in the game.  Mind you, not the normal Murphies Law of gameplay, but the guys who think AH is about calling the whole squad in on one lone enemy.  

The guy in a 4v1 should get x4 points for damaging enemy planes, and the 4 hero's attacking the lone enemy should get x0.25 points.

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: General Idea to try...
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2008, 02:36:59 PM »
I think you have A little too much time on your hands.


Heaven forbid he is actually trying to offer suggestions on how to improve the game and general quality of game play.  Can you say the same?  Don't think so.


ack-ack
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Offline sunfan1121

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Re: General Idea to try...
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2008, 03:26:50 PM »

Heaven forbid he is actually trying to offer suggestions on how to improve the game and general quality of game play.  Can you say the same?  Don't think so.


ack-ack

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Offline Solar10

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Re: General Idea to try...
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2008, 03:47:50 PM »
I like stats.... I don't like scores/ranks.
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Offline Kaw1000

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Re: General Idea to try...
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2008, 04:50:49 PM »
Scoring system stinks...you can fly/gv 3 missions each for the month and get a very low rating....I killed 400 fighters and bombers and I rank 800 and something......the guys that know how to work the system get the low ranks...the work horses get the high rank...not fair at all.
Its not about whos the best its about who knows how to abuse the system that get the low ranks!
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Offline Lusche

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Re: General Idea to try...
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2008, 04:56:12 PM »
Scoring system stinks...you can fly/gv 3 missions each for the month and get a very low rating....I killed 400 fighters and bombers and I rank 800 and something......the guys that know how to work the system get the low ranks...the work horses get the high rank...not fair at all.
Its not about whos the best its about who knows how to abuse the system that get the low ranks!

Though the usual whine is that all the guys with insane hours per month only get the good ranks...
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Offline Murdr

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Re: General Idea to try...
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2008, 05:03:08 PM »
Scoring system stinks...you can fly/gv 3 missions each for the month and get a very low rating....I killed 400 fighters and bombers and I rank 800 and something......the guys that know how to work the system get the low ranks...the work horses get the high rank...not fair at all.
Its not about whos the best its about who knows how to abuse the system that get the low ranks!
Grin :)
Boy that golf scoring system must be totaly screwed, because the best golfer I know of dosn't care to try for a good score any more, and instead just goes out to see how many hole in ones he can make. But lesser players always get better scores. Man that golf score system sucks. It just dosn't reflect who is the better gollfer.

HiTech


You've pretty much made my point that context matters.

If a sizeable number of players in golf suddenly played only to see how many holes in one they could make while everyone else played for score, then the golf scoring system would not provide an accurate measure of skill.  It would rank winners and losers based on existing golf rules, sure, but as a metric for skill it would suffer.

The AH scoring system is a bit more complex to compare to something like a golf score anyway.  I hate to say it, but it seems closer to figure skating than golf.  :)

-- Todd/Leviathn


Bull puppy.

The system would still accuratly provide a measure of golf skill. But your players are no longer playing golf they are now playing a different game. And since your players are not interested in their golf score, they wouldn't even keep track.

So are you interested in playing golf, or do you just want to head to the driving range. Both are perfectly acceptible, but don't try tell the golfers they should forget about it and just go to the driving range instead, because in your view distance is the only TRUE method for messuring a golfers talents.

HiTech

Offline Kaw1000

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Re: General Idea to try...
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2008, 05:29:05 PM »
Btw.. I could give a flying turd what my score is....just stating my opinion  :D
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Offline chrish483

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Re: General Idea to try...
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2008, 06:02:44 PM »
Ive seen alot of new names out there on the field and as with new people there going to play the score and rank game and try and get perks for better rides.  im shure that even people that have played for some time get bored and change tactics.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: General Idea to try...
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2008, 07:09:07 PM »
Ive seen alot of new names out there on the field and as with new people there going to play the score and rank game and try and get perks for better rides.  im shure that even people that have played for some time get bored and change tactics.

Far too often at that point they do not only change their tactics and style but also forget what they did before. They become hypocrites attacking, denouncing and belitteling other, probably newer players that did not "see the light" yet.

A few days ago I saw a regular playing for a few years ranting about that "skilles n00bs", how the game is degrading from all that lame spawncamping, picking, no one wants to fight any more, all are just scorehores and so on...

The sad thing is, I clearly remember that very player merrly camping  GV spawns on many occasions with me a few years ago, and even more.
People sometimes get very selective with their memories.
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