Author Topic: Comments of a real fighter pilot from today  (Read 1324 times)

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Comments of a real fighter pilot from today
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2008, 08:31:32 PM »
AKAK could you post a picture or film with trails on so I can see what you mean against spits?  You mean just avoiding the HO that they will take, and then doing a climbing turn up?  Or like barrel rolling up?  I'm a little confused.


Like 2bighorn stated, a spiral climb. Spiral climb to the left if flying against a Spitfire MK XIV and to the right for the other Spitfires.  By spiraling up in the opposite direction of their torque, it will bleed their energy much faster since they are having to componsate for the torque by using more control input. 

The above is a perfect example of why it's very important to know not only the strengths and weaknesses of your plane but that of your foe's as well. 

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Offline Fianna

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Re: Comments of a real fighter pilot from today
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2008, 08:36:58 PM »
Suddenly! A challenger appears!


(Image removed from quote.)


And promptly runs away.  :P

Offline CAP1

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Re: Comments of a real fighter pilot from today
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2008, 08:59:56 PM »
And there we have the problem with the game. Furballers don't care if they die, just grab another ride and up it into the horde/furball again. The pilots in real life know that that plane is there ride home. You lose your plane not only do you lose your ride but very possibly your life! I do tons of porking missions in the game and know how hard that is, i can't imagine in real life diving into the ack knowing 1 lucky hit can make me a POW or dead. Courage and fear went hand in hand with those guys and nothing but respect for em. :salute

i think the point that guppy may have been trying to make, is that fighter pilots are confident in themselves. so the AH cartoon furballers, are much more confident in themselves, i think might be the point...than are the cartoon bnz'ers, because they live their cartoon lives in here for the cartoon furball. your airplanes are free......c'mon down n fight. your next one is free.....and so is mine, or anyones. that'sa all........

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Offline BnZ

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Re: Comments of a real fighter pilot from today
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2008, 09:00:18 PM »
Well, there you have it, the difference between us and the real pilots is that we don't really die. I am 100% in agreement on this point.

The reason why aggression is priceless and must be cultivated in the real fighter pilot is to counter balance the potentially mind-numbing fear that a realistic likelyhood of violent death  brings about. Since we face no death, aggression and recklessness is cheap and easy and we must instead cultivate an ounce of the prudence a real pilot might feel about his death,  if we are to keep a semi-realistic perspective on aircraft and tactics.

Last night I joined a mission of some sort, mossies into an airbase. I knew that between ack, wirbels, and fighters, it was certain death. Trepidation was strangely absent, I enjoyed my last meal with gusto. :D My pre-flight check was most slip-shod, I don't think I even adjusted all of my views. :D No churning stomach, n sweaty palms  :D I shot down two planes and got torn to pieces trying to de-ack. No pain, no despair, no churning stomach, not even the sweaty palms or pounding heart some of you speak of from this game. But I never get that anyway. There wasn't even much dissatisfaction with my performance, since it went pretty much the way I knew it would go down. Death in AHII requires no courage to face and no cowardice to avoid.

As to the Johnnie Johnson quote...It strikes me these pilots he speaks of had to fight down great fear and
yet, STILL THEY FLEW. In any case, very few playing this game are fit to clean the windshield of even the most terrified pilot who ever flew a sortie in WWII.


Offline CAP1

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Re: Comments of a real fighter pilot from today
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2008, 09:04:27 PM »
Well, there you have it, the difference between us and the real pilots is that we don't really die. I am 100% in agreement on this point.

The reason why aggression is priceless and must be cultivated in the real fighter pilot is to counter balance the potentially mind-numbing fear that a realistic likelyhood of violent death  brings about. Since we face no death, aggression and recklessness is cheap and easy and we must instead cultivate an ounce of the prudence a real pilot might feel about his death,  if we are to keep a semi-realistic perspective on aircraft and tactics.

Last night I joined a mission of some sort, mossies into an airbase. I knew that between ack, wirbels, and fighters, it was certain death. Trepidation was strangely absent, I enjoyed my last meal with gusto. :D My pre-flight check was most slip-shod, I don't think I even adjusted all of my views. :D No churning stomach, n sweaty palms  :D I shot down two planes and got torn to pieces trying to de-ack. No pain, no despair, no churning stomach, not even the sweaty palms or pounding heart some of you speak of from this game. But I never get that anyway. There wasn't even much dissatisfaction with my performance, since it went pretty much the way I knew it would go down. Death in AHII requires no courage to face and no cowardice to avoid.

As to the Johnnie Johnson quote...It strikes me these pilots he speaks of had to fight down great fear and
yet, STILL THEY FLEW. In any case, very few playing this game are fit to clean the windshield of even the most terrified pilot who ever flew a sortie in WWII.



 :salute :aok
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Offline moot

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Re: Comments of a real fighter pilot from today
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2008, 09:15:28 PM »
The problem, in this thread, with what that real pilot said, is that it has no mention of respecting others' 1:1s, no mention of not piling on to a single con when 2+ are already on it, etc.
In fact, if IronDog & co are reading that quote, they're probably thinking it supports their point of view, rather than that of 'furballers'.
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Offline Bronk

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Re: Comments of a real fighter pilot from today
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2008, 09:21:22 PM »
The problem, in this thread, with what that real pilot said, is that it has no mention of respecting others' 1:1s, no mention of not piling on to a single con when 2+ are already on it, etc.
In fact, if IronDog & co are reading that quote, they're probably thinking it supports their point of view, rather than that of 'furballers'.
However your wingman wouldn't be shooting over your shoulder. ;)
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Offline mensa180

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Re: Comments of a real fighter pilot from today
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2008, 10:07:08 PM »

...The above is a perfect example of why it's very important to know not only the strengths and weaknesses of your plane but that of your foe's as well...

ack-ack

Are you implying I don't know my plane and enemy's plane's strengths and weaknesses?  ;)
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Offline Halo46

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Re: Comments of a real fighter pilot from today
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2008, 10:24:47 PM »
Each one of us players are hypocrites. For every post admonishing some act I have had those same posters do exactly what they profess to dislike to me. When I first read your post I probably took it the wrong way from how you intended it; however, it remains hypocritical. I am not sure if you are advocating a certain play style or not, but does it really matter?

How to express myself intelligently will be a real challenge as I am not that intelligent. First, either it is a game or it is not. You (collective)advocate a certain "historical" context towards gameplay if I understand you correctly. On the other hand, you (singular) are an advocate of total "gaminess" as regards S.A.P.P., ie. landings.

I can understand the desire for a little silliness, I can understand the desire for history, but who is to decide what the right mix is? What I can not understand is the utter disregard for respect of others. I think I introduced a new topic into the conversation. Sorry, but to me respect is the crux of the problem with this and many other games. There are a lot of morally reprehensible posts between players and 'cartoon" acts that would have been grounds for criminal charges in real life.

If you talked to Chuck Yeager the 51 was the cats meow, Bob Johnson would say the Jug, each pilot who threw themselves in an aircraft is going to have a preference. I fail to see the point of emphasing this pilots regard for your chosen plane set as relevent to the way the post was made. That came out bad, I guess your post could have been written with less bias in it. I appreciate any bit of history I come across, but am suspect when I sense an underlying prurpose in the way the information is presented.

I am sure I am way off base, because I tend to read negativity in much too large a percentage of posts in these forums. Basically, the unwritten rules I see here are: if you have been playing longer than someone else, your entitled to be louder than they are and therefore must be right in your opinions; the higher your virtual score is the more abusive you are allowed to be; finally, since you are basically annonymous, you are free to act contrary to accepted social norms.

It is such a shame that something so potentially benificial is always ruined by those very users who can benefit from it. Maybe this post should have been it's own thread, but I am more and more disenfranchised with the direction that social interaction is going.  So who can change this? Each one of us can, if willing, the problem is that many more are not willing. It really is a shame to continually read such negative replies to innocuos questions, opinions, and ideas.

I was surprised by this post as most I have read are very open minded and am probably just missing the point because the point was not written in a manner I could undestand. How much does it really matter at the end of the day how others play, what is more important I think is how they interact. Have fun. <S>
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Comments of a real fighter pilot from today
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2008, 10:45:20 PM »
As I just posted in another thread.  There is no right way to play the game.  There is only the way in which you as a player have the most fun.

I posted this today because I happened to talk to a real 38 driver today and his comment struck a chord with me regarding game play.

He was saying that for real he dreamed of fighting 109s and 190s and didn't get the chance due to the mission he was given to fly.  His goal as a fighter pilot at age 19 was to dogfight.  He saw that a true fighter pilot had to have that piece of him that wanted to fight and believed he couldn't lose.  He also talked about some of the guys he flew 38s with.  Some were 'smooth" pilots, and some were "hot' pilots. 

I was talking to my wife about it and she said something to the effect that if you were flying on an airliner you'd want a smooth pilot, but if you were in a dogfight, you'd want a 'hot' pilot.  That's what he meant in the conversation.  And i think in AH we have a lot of guys who fly 'smooth' but not nearly as many who are 'hot' pilots. 

I sure don't claim some kind of high ground in the discussion due to time in the game or history or whatever.  What I've come to believe, and it's just my opinion, is that because we aren't doing this for real, why not take the chance in a fight?  We take no risk, so why not mix it up?  My goal if there is such a thing in the game is to be a 'hot'  cartoon pilot not a smooth one.  And as those who have seen my landings can attest, I'm definately not smooth :)

Again, just my view on it.  Not condemning anyone else for how they play.
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Offline moot

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Re: Comments of a real fighter pilot from today
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2008, 11:07:21 PM »
I was talking to my wife about it and she said something to the effect that if you were flying on an airliner you'd want a smooth pilot, but if you were in a dogfight, you'd want a 'hot' pilot.  That's what he meant in the conversation.  And i think in AH we have a lot of guys who fly 'smooth' but not nearly as many who are 'hot' pilots. 
I think it's not that simple.  Dogfighting is a martial art, and you can successfuly use both of those styles of flying.  I think a dogfighting pilot would want both hot and smooth.  Smooth ensures maximal efficiency of ACM, hot ensures minimal hesitation.  Like Bruce Lee said, you don't want to be tense, you want to be ready for whatever may come - smooth or hot.
Like Lev said, (paraphrasing:) "one pilot uses geometry, another uses aggression".

You think there's no wrong way to play the game so long as one is having fun.. I think there's pleny of ways to "have fun" while totaly borking dogfights' quality.  Easiest example would be the archetype player you describe as "flying lightspeed into your dogfight to pick you just as the 1:1 fight was getting good".
« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 11:10:39 PM by moot »
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Offline Halo46

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Re: Comments of a real fighter pilot from today
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2008, 11:16:04 PM »
<S>
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Offline Mr No Name

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Re: Comments of a real fighter pilot from today
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2008, 11:23:26 PM »
good read guppy
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Offline Slamfire

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Re: Comments of a real fighter pilot from today
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2008, 11:33:26 PM »
I had a talk with a 474th FG P38 pilot today as part of a research project I'm doing.  A couple things he said made a lot of sense in particular in response to the thread about "furballers mentality"

His name is Bud Holecheck and he was a 19 year old 38 pilot thrown into the middle of things in October 44 flying ground attack.  Their alt he said was generally 8K for the job so the bad guys were above if they saw them.



Love the attitude - just basically says "I'm here to fight, and fight to win". And yeah, "I got the best ride there is" - total Fighter Pilot Mentality - type of guy who can find 1000 ways to win and 0 ways to lose.

How the hell do you beat such a man ?  :salute
 
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Comments of a real fighter pilot from today
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2008, 01:24:25 AM »
Are you implying I don't know my plane and enemy's plane's strengths and weaknesses?  ;)

Well, your name is Mensa:devil


ack-ack
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