Fun Fights Extinct?

[CAP1]

fighting at high altitude does not work with the types of planes i fly. i like to slug it out on deck. if i encounter i high con i will avoid him. survival is paramont in warfare.

LOW ALT IS MY PREFERENCE TOO.....but when you find all the cons up high, and can't fgure out hot\w to beat the hi guys....you go up there with them........if i'm co-alt, i can at least give ya a good fight.......

<<S>>

[Shuffler]

See, (IMO) it's not possible to have a decent fight with someone who doesn't care whether they win or lose.  Can you imagine playing ANY game with someone who just doesn't care?  How boring and pointless...

MtnMan

You missed the boat on that one....

What he means is he'll fight to the death if required...... not run away. Some of the best fights are when your outnumbered OTD and come out victorious. If you just ran away from anything that is a challenge you'd never get any better in your cartoon plane.

[ROX]

Back in the day (jeesh I'm an old geezer) if you saw someone in a 1 v 1 you always asked if the friendly needed help or if they wanted you to butt out.  Courtesy.

Doesn't seem to exist anymore.

Last week I'm in a heavy jug and see a corsair co-alt.  I drop my ords and am about to engage when a 4+k advantage nik1 swoops down on me...within seconds another corsair and nik1 show up. 

I asked the guy who killed me how come he wouldn't let me have a nice 1 v 1 with the corsair driver...he said "the corsair flier asked for help with all the alt advantage you had"

Unless you go to the DA, your chances of a nice 1 v 1 are exceedingly rare.  Expect to get ganged and you won't be dissapointed.

Outside of that, if you fly EW early mornings North American time, you might luck out and get a 1 v 1.


ROX

[mtnman]

You missed the boat on that one....

What he means is he'll fight to the death if required...... not run away. Some of the best fights are when your outnumbered OTD and come out victorious. If you just ran away from anything that is a challenge you'd never get any better in your cartoon plane.

Ooops, I think you dropped in between the boat and the pier...  Here lemme give you a hand-

99.99% of my fights result in "death" for one of us, that's pretty much a given in my fights and isn't the issue.  

My point stands- an opponent with no desire to win isn't much of an opponent.  In my world, a desire to win isn't the same thing as an expectation to win (although it's obviously possible to desire to win and expect to win)( as it's also possible to have a strong desire to win, and a low expectation of actually accomplishing it).  Exhibiting a desire is not the same thing as "not caring".  Handling defeat well also isn't "not caring", it's learning that you can't always get what you desire, and behaving maturely anyway.

"Not caring" implies a lack of interest.  It's a rather neutral (and often seen as negative) stance when compared to desire.  Lemme give you another example-

I "don't care" whom Hillary Clinton (or you) dates.  (At all)( That could change I suppose depending on exactly who she (or you) chose- my father or mother for example).

I "do care" whom my daughter dates.  I have a very strong desire that my wife not date at all anymore (except me  ).

Interpersonal interactions are more fulfilling and interesting (opposite of boring) if both/all participants "care".  That's true for loads of examples- games, sports, sex, ad infinitum.  Try having an interesting, fulfilling, example of any of those with a disinterested partner, who simply "doesn't care".

By their very nature, competitive sports and games have a winner and a loser.  It should be expected that someone will lose, since there is generally only one "winner" or "winning team".  That doesn't mean the "loser" didn't "desire" to win.

That quote was given in response to someone stating they "didn't care".  As in "neutral in desire".  As in "I don't care, so I'm not really trying..."

Anyone who "doesn't care" likely wouldn't even be playing the game, and if they were their time might be better spent watching TV, where a fullfilling interaction isn't as dependant on both/all participants having a "desire" to succeed, whether they "expected" to or not.

MtnMan

[smokey23]

I ran across someone in a F6F same as mine his name was talon1 or somethin sorry i cant remember the name exactly but we did a nose on pass no hits we both extended about 1 K turned and did another pass. It turned into a hoin contest..LOL , what was cool was none of his other 5 buddies around tried pickin me off it was 2 identical planes goin at it for 4 or 5 passes i ended up gettin my tail damaged and went down and i dont know wherther or not he survived the encounter and im not a fan of the Ho but it was a fight to the death and was a fun sortie non the less.  mr talon

[WWM]

I think everyone has a desire to win.  But the amount of emphasis you place on coming out alive decides how or how not you fight.  Some will not pass up the oppurtunity to fight even if they do not have the advantage or loose the advantage.   If I see you, mntman, I am quite sure I will be shot down if I attack...but attack I will.  I want to shoot you down but if I last 3 or 4 turns I will be happy.  That was an improvment over last time I fought you and in a way I feel like I won something .. same with Dedalos...M00t...snaphook and others.

If I placed a lot of emphasis on not being shot down and saw you I could run and say I "won" that engagement because I got away.

<S>

[mtnman]

Absolutely true WWM.  Don't count on me waiting for you to initiate the attack though 

I think too much emphasis on living is as bad as too little emphasis on living. 

If all emphasis is on getting as many killing, with no care given to "surviving" why not just rush in into an HO joust fest?

If all emphasis is on living, why leave the tower?

MtnMan

[Shuffler]

Ooops, I think you dropped in between the boat and the pier...  Here lemme give you a hand-

99.99% of my fights result in "death" for one of us, that's pretty much a given in my fights and isn't the issue.  

My point stands- an opponent with no desire to win isn't much of an opponent.  In my world, a desire to win isn't the same thing as an expectation to win (although it's obviously possible to desire to win and expect to win)( as it's also possible to have a strong desire to win, and a low expectation of actually accomplishing it).  Exhibiting a desire is not the same thing as "not caring".  Handling defeat well also isn't "not caring", it's learning that you can't always get what you desire, and behaving maturely anyway.

"Not caring" implies a lack of interest.  It's a rather neutral (and often seen as negative) stance when compared to desire.  Lemme give you another example-

I "don't care" whom Hillary Clinton (or you) dates.  (At all)( That could change I suppose depending on exactly who she (or you) chose- my father or mother for example).

I "do care" whom my daughter dates.  I have a very strong desire that my wife not date at all anymore (except me  ).

Interpersonal interactions are more fulfilling and interesting (opposite of boring) if both/all participants "care".  That's true for loads of examples- games, sports, sex, ad infinitum.  Try having an interesting, fulfilling, example of any of those with a disinterested partner, who simply "doesn't care".

By their very nature, competitive sports and games have a winner and a loser.  It should be expected that someone will lose, since there is generally only one "winner" or "winning team".  That doesn't mean the "loser" didn't "desire" to win.

That quote was given in response to someone stating they "didn't care".  As in "neutral in desire".  As in "I don't care, so I'm not really trying..."

Anyone who "doesn't care" likely wouldn't even be playing the game, and if they were their time might be better spent watching TV, where a fullfilling interaction isn't as dependant on both/all participants having a "desire" to succeed, whether they "expected" to or not.

MtnMan

Like I said... missed the boat AND the pier. Maybe you were back peddling trying to explain yourself and didn't notice. 

[mtnman]

Lol, where did I back-pedal?  I still stand by my original statement.

I think you're confused.

[gpwurzel]

Personally, I fly stupid - I attack where I probably shouldnt, hang around too long looking for more fights etc etc etc. I dont expect to live through every flight, which would give the impression I dont care if I die ingame. This is a wrong impression - as I do care - but, I prefer to find a fight, get kills and further my experience - I occassionally land with them (as no one else ups, or comes along before I get bored).

I love this game, and love the interaction with people from all over the world (it wont stop me trying to shoot em down tho!!). If I die ingame to a good fight - whilst I'm not happy I lost (I'm actually a really bad loser), at least I tried my best (in each and every fight - win or lose!).

just my 0.0000001p worth, ymmv

Wurzel

[BaldEagl]

It's gotten to the point where I reversed a Spitfire and watched him dive and run to the nearest ack, which was OUR ack!

 

I was in a P-38J the other night fighting a P-47D-40.  We started high and ended on the deck over the water.  I ended up with the advantage but by the time I had the perfect shot I was bingo ammo so I just stayed on the guy to see if I could force him to auger.

He basically ran for a CV doing some evasives along the way.  It was our CV and he died in the ack. 

He did send me a <S> afterward, which I returned without rubbing it in.

[BlauK]

What does 1-on-1 have to do with a good fight?

If you want a good fight, you create the situation you want.
If it is only 1-on-1 you enjoy, go to DA or TA to get your fix

[CAP1]

I think everyone has a desire to win.  But the amount of emphasis you place on coming out alive decides how or how not you fight.  Some will not pass up the oppurtunity to fight even if they do not have the advantage or loose the advantage.   If I see you, mntman, I am quite sure I will be shot down if I attack...but attack I will.  I want to shoot you down but if I last 3 or 4 turns I will be happy.  That was an improvment over last time I fought you and in a way I feel like I won something .. same with Dedalos...M00t...snaphook and others.

If I placed a lot of emphasis on not being shot down and saw you I could run and say I "won" that engagement because I got away.

<S>

i'm going to imagine mtman is quite good then, as my fight with you the other week was fun..and you flew it with excellence. i think the best part of the whole thing, was that one of my squaddies, and one of your countrymen showed up, and neither had engaged. my only regret about that entire fight was the fact that i turned off when i saw part of your wing come off....though ya were done.

 i like that attitude too......it means you're gonna improve.

<<S>>

[NoBaddy]

My point stands- an opponent with no desire to win isn't much of an opponent.  In my world, a desire to win isn't the same thing as an expectation to win (although it's obviously possible to desire to win and expect to win)( as it's also possible to have a strong desire to win, and a low expectation of actually accomplishing it).  Exhibiting a desire is not the same thing as "not caring".  Handling defeat well also isn't "not caring", it's learning that you can't always get what you desire, and behaving maturely anyway.

"Not caring" implies a lack of interest.  It's a rather neutral (and often seen as negative) stance when compared to desire. 

Well, you suggest that anyone more concerned with having the fight than winning it isn't a worthy opponent. You have made (at least, where I am concerned) some incorrect assumptions.

By their very nature, competitive sports and games have a winner and a loser.  It should be expected that someone will lose, since there is generally only one "winner" or "winning team".  That doesn't mean the "loser" didn't "desire" to win.

The main arena game really doesn't qualify as sport or game in the classic sense. In the sports/games you are talking about, there are rules that insure a balanced playing field for the competitors. That does not apply to the MA.

That quote was given in response to someone stating they "didn't care".  As in "neutral in desire".  As in "I don't care, so I'm not really trying..."

Anyone who "doesn't care" likely wouldn't even be playing the game, and if they were their time might be better spent watching TV, where a fullfilling interaction isn't as dependant on both/all participants having a "desire" to succeed, whether they "expected" to or not.

MtnMan

Your assumption that anyone that doesn't care about losing isn't trying to win is false. Since winning or losing in the MA has no meaning , in a real sense, why on earth should anyone care? Frankly, anyone seriously concerned with the outcome of a totally virtual 'fight' probably SHOULD spending his time watching TV. 

[WWM]

my only regret about that entire fight was the fact that i turned off when i saw part of your wing come off....though ya were done.

 i like that attitude too......it means you're gonna improve.
<<S>>

  Dedalos routinely picks one of my wings off in the DA.....so I have a lot of practice continueing to try to engage with half a wing

<S> was a good fight.